C++ Anyone
-
I am in the process of re-learning C++ from many, many, MANY years
ago. My goal is to become proficient [again] without any
dependancies to any one platform other than custom GUI work. I would
LIKE to use OS X as my development platform and C++ as my language of
choice. I have not yet touched v2.0 of Xcode (have not seen it since
the last WWDC opening speech), but am looking for advice. More
specifically...
1. Any reason to use Eclipse (or another IDE) over XCode?
2. Any reasons NOT to use XCode, in general?
3. What source control tools does XCode tie into nicely?
4. Any hoops / gotchas for using OS X & XCode for my dev env for
cross-platform stuff?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Greg -
I am far from a guru (in fact I am a lurker on this list to see if I
can learn a thing or two), but I have used CDT with eclipse (and
written a couple plugins for eclipse) and I've used Xcode for a few
projects. I am still learning Xcode but from my experience...
> 1. Any reason to use Eclipse (or another IDE) over XCode?Eclipse has better CVS and SVN integration. For example, eclipse has
the ability to get a project from a repository without having to
check it out from the shell and quite a few other source control
features. Other than that, I don't think one has an advantage over
the other save Eclipse is quite a bit slower since it's based on Java
(mostly). (For Objective-C Xcode wins hands down).
> 2. Any reasons NOT to use XCode, in general?Not that I can think of for C++, C or Objective-C.
> 3. What source control tools does XCode tie into nicely?I use it with CVS (for work) and SVN for my open source projects.
Works fine after you have the project checked out and setup.
Tutorials:
http://maczealots.com/tutorials/xcode-cvs/
http://maczealots.com/tutorials/xcode-svn/
If you have a choice, I like svn.
> 4. Any hoops / gotchas for using OS X & XCode for my dev env ford'know about that.
> cross-platform stuff?
-
On 2005-12-19 23:05, Greg Deward said:
> 1. Any reason to use Eclipse (or another IDE) over XCode?
Xcode's biggest advantage really is that it's from Apple. So you know
it will support new technologies first. (The Xcode team has early
knowledge of Apple's future direction.) For example, Xcode is the only
thing that supports development for Intel Macs, it was the first to
support Mach-O, etc. It's also free (as in beer).
I'm no C++ guru, but I have read that CodeWarrior's C++ library is much
better than Xcode/gcc's. However, CodeWarrior is end-of-life, so
learning it now is questionable, though for the moment it's still a
viable environment for C++ PPC Mac development. It is $99USD.
> 2. Any reasons NOT to use XCode, in general?
The most popular complaint (and IMNSHO, well deserved) is that it is
slow (UI and compile time). Though I've been told Eclipse is even
slower, but I've never used it. CodeWarrior is quite fast.
You say your 'goal is to become proficient [again] without any
dependancies to any one platform'. In that case, I do recommend you use
more than one IDE, it helps keep things portable.
--
____________________________________________________________
Sean McBride, B. Eng <sean...>
Rogue Research www.rogue-research.com
Mac Software Developer Montréal, Québec, Canada -
> I'm no C++ guru, but I have read that CodeWarrior's C++ library is much
> better than Xcode/gcc's. However, CodeWarrior is end-of-life, so
> learning it now is questionable
The person responsible for CW's great C++ libraries now works at Apple ;-)
--
Scott Ribe
<scott_ribe...>
http://www.killerbytes.com/
(303) 665-7007 voice -
>> 1. Any reason to use Eclipse (or another IDE) over XCode?
>
> Xcode's biggest advantage really is that it's from Apple. So you know
> it will support new technologies first. (The Xcode team has early
> knowledge of Apple's future direction.) For example, Xcode is the
> only
> thing that supports development for Intel Macs, it was the first to
> support Mach-O, etc. It's also free (as in beer).
I'm not sure if this is the biggest advantage. I'd rather call it the
biggest weakness - at least when it comes down to C++. My impression
is the official Apple doctrine can be paraphrased as "C++ is
unproductive, use Cocoa", and many times I cannot resist the
impression XCode has not really been tested against any C++ that goes
beyond the contents of the first edition of B. Stroustrups book.
Examples coming to my mind are: Templates sometimes break
autocompletion, namespaces bust pretty much everything (modeller,
completion,... ), error messages are harder to read than in competing
IDEs, the debugger interface used to have severe deficiencies with
templates and automatically created multiple CTORs, Objective-C++ is
a mere interface layer that is really hard to use in an exception-
safe manner and compile times exceed my patience on an Powerbook by
far when the code is template-heavy.
> I'm no C++ guru, but I have read that CodeWarrior's C++ library is
> much
> better than Xcode/gcc's.
The gcc 2.x library was for me unusuable, with the 3.x variant my
code needed slight modifications and the 4.x variant catched up quite
a lot. Without much benchmarking (90% of my codebase will compile
only in Codewarrior until the SDKs of the major publishing programs
are revised) I still consider the Metrowerks implementation better
optimized, though. The good news is the author of the Metrowerks C++
standard library now works at Apple.
> You say your 'goal is to become proficient [again] without any
> dependancies to any one platform'. In that case, I do recommend
> you use
> more than one IDE, it helps keep things portable.
IMNSHO for learning purposes - i.e. "toy projects exhibiting language
features" BBEdit, make or preferrably ant and the commandline make a
neat combo.
Regards,
Tom_E -
On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Thomas Engelmeier wrote:
> IMNSHO for learning purposes - i.e. "toy projects exhibiting
> language features" BBEdit, make or preferrably ant and the
> commandline make a neat combo.
Good point. Am I hallucinating, however? I could have sworn that I
used to se BBEdit on previous installs of OS X. Tiger does not bring
it with its install. I WAS going to use it, but I did not want to
pay for it just yet.
Thanx,
Greg -
On 12/20/05 at 5:29 PM, Greg Deward <greg.deward...> wrote:
>> IMNSHO for learning purposes - i.e. "toy projects exhibiting
>> language features" BBEdit, make or preferrably ant and the
>> commandline make a neat combo.
>
>
> Good point. Am I hallucinating, however? I could have sworn that I
> used to se BBEdit on previous installs of OS X. Tiger does not bring
> it with its install. I WAS going to use it, but I did not want to
> pay for it just yet.
I can't speak to your hallucination :-), but I can say unequivocally
that BBEdit was never bundled with the OS. However, you can certainly
download the demo and take it for a spin.
R.
--
Rich Siegel Bare Bones Software, Inc.
<siegel...> <http://www.barebones.com/>
Someday I'll look back on all this and laugh... until they sedate me. -
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:29:54 -0500, Greg Deward <greg.deward...>
wrote:
> On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Thomas Engelmeier wrote:
>> IMNSHO for learning purposes - i.e. "toy projects exhibiting
>> language features" BBEdit, make or preferrably ant and the
>> commandline make a neat combo.
>
> Good point. Am I hallucinating, however? I could have sworn that I
> used to se BBEdit on previous installs of OS X. Tiger does not bring
> it with its install. I WAS going to use it, but I did not want to
> pay for it just yet.
If you don't need all of BBEdit's fine features ([\plug]) you might consider
their "less expensive" text editor TextWrangler. ;-)
--
Enjoy,
George Warner,
Schizophrenic Optimization Scientist
Apple Developer Technical Support (DTS) -
Hi,
We're using Xcode for the development of our cross platform CMS
(currently Mac OS X, Linux and Windows). There really aren't any
gotchas. I prefer Xcode over Eclipse, because I like the user
interface much better. It's really well thought-out. (If Eclipse gets
proper refactoring tools for C++ before Xcode does, that might be a
reason to switch to Eclipse though.)
We're using CVS for version control. I don't use Xcode's built-in
version control; I use CVL (http://www.sente.ch/software/cvl/)
instead, which I think is the best CVS client I have ever encountered,
on any platform. I would like to switch to Subversion, but I haven't
found a client that I like enough.
So my advice: use Xcode for your development. If you start from
scratch you're probably better off with Subversion than with CVS,
because of the inherent limitations of CVS.
Regards,
Stefan -
> I would like to switch to Subversion, but I haven't
> found a client that I like enough.
If you haven't tried these, they are two of my favorite outside-the-
IDE subversion tools:
http://www.lachoseinteractive.net/en/community/subversion/svnx/
features/?sid=oito5omvt27qj5k2j4j4jhude0
(screenshot: <A href="http://scplugin.tigris.org/">http://scplugin.tigris.org/
images/contextual_menu.png) -
Hi Stefan,
did you ever tried SmartCVS or SmartSVN.
For my opinion, these are the best CVS/SVN Clients I've ever worked
with. Look at http://www.smartcvs.com.
These are Java-Programs with a Swing GUI and a very nice Look&Feel.
Because of Java, you can use them on every Platform, even on good old
OS/2 ;-) and of course on the MAC.
regards
Joachim
Am 21.12.2005 um 20:15 schrieb Stefan van den Oord:
> Hi,
>
> We're using Xcode for the development of our cross platform CMS
> (currently Mac OS X, Linux and Windows). There really aren't any
> gotchas. I prefer Xcode over Eclipse, because I like the user
> interface much better. It's really well thought-out. (If Eclipse gets
> proper refactoring tools for C++ before Xcode does, that might be a
> reason to switch to Eclipse though.)
>
> We're using CVS for version control. I don't use Xcode's built-in
> version control; I use CVL (http://www.sente.ch/software/cvl/)
> instead, which I think is the best CVS client I have ever encountered,
> on any platform. I would like to switch to Subversion, but I haven't
> found a client that I like enough.
>
> So my advice: use Xcode for your development. If you start from
> scratch you're probably better off with Subversion than with CVS,
> because of the inherent limitations of CVS.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stefan
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-
On Dec 21, 2005, at 12:30 PM, Joachim Deelen wrote:
> Because of Java, you can use them on every Platform, even on good
> old OS/2 ;-) and of course on the MAC.
Wow Java runs on Media Access Controllers and can show a UI? Who knew =P
"Mac" is short for "Macintosh" it is not an acronym. :)
-Shawn -
Greg Deward wrote:
>
> Any reasons NOT to use XCode, in general?
Not really, except the editor's syntax coloring, which is
incredibly slow. Use Emacs instead. Or switch off the syntax
coloring.
Mike -
> namespaces bust pretty much everything (modeller,
> completion,... ),
Well, hey, at least they no longer bust the *compiler*. That is progress!
--
Scott Ribe
<scott_ribe...>
http://www.killerbytes.com/
(303) 665-7007 voice
