Re: Java vs. Objective-C for Cocoa

FROM : Rick Kitts
DATE : Sat Apr 23 04:44:27 2005

Don't do Java for Cocoa.

Some things that come up immediately. GC doesn't work across the
java-cocoa boundary. So, put an object into, say, an NSTable thingee
but don't keep a reference to it (like putting it into a List) and it
will get GC'd out from under you. Essentially you're doing ref counting
in java. Doable of course, but it's annoying.

It's incredibly poorly documented relative to what I really needed. It
is a second class citizen so when you want to find an example how to do
something non-trivial you're looking at cocoa code and the translation
cocoa=>java is not always so straight forward (categories are an
example).

Java apps are just, well, off. If you enjoy the supple apps you run on
a Mac, it will be hard to get that same feeling with Java.

Some things (forget what) aren't supported in cocoa-java. Forget what
they where but it was annoying and you end up constraining your app
because of it.

Server side java on the Mac is, as you probably know, sweet as hell on
the Mac (ignoring Apples bordering-on-outrageous lag in shipping 1.5)
but it's just not for UI.

ObjC the language is fine. Cocoa the framework is incredible. Xcode is
pretty bronze age but serviceable.

---Rick

On Apr 22, 2005, at 11:14 AM, Zacharias J. Beckman wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'd love to hear from a few people -- pointers, comments, resources to
> read -- about the virtues of going with Java for a Cocoa application
> versus Objective-C. I've read most of the docs available on the Mac
> Dev site and they provide a pretty good overview, but what I'm really
> looking for are hands-on pros, cons and opinions on how well it works.
>
> It's been a long time (since the NeXT days) since I did Objective-C
> programming and frankly, I would love to get back into Interface
> Builder, Xcode, etc., etc. I have some projects I want to start up on
> OS/X. But for the past decade (more or less) I've been doing mostly
> Java work.
>
> My concerns are that Java doesn't seem to be as tightly integrated
> into OS/X as I'd like (but of course, cross platform is a wonderful
> thing so maybe it balances out). What about interfaces? It doesn't
> seem that Interface Builder provides a mode for working with Java (I
> had hoped that there was a translation layer in there somewhere).
> Menus are different, a number of window server event hooks are
> different...
>
> Another concern is that one of these projects would be a service, one
> that's tightly integrated into the file system -- how strong is a Java
> based solution in this area? Is it even possible?
>
> So, if anyone that has done both native and Java based OS/X
> development wants to send a few pointers and opinions my way I'd
> really love to hear them. Thanks!
> --
> Zacharias J. Beckman – <email_removed> – 805-482-2878 (office)
> Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even
> though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits
> who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in the gray
> twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat. – Theodore Roosevelt
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