Re: WWDC2k5 and ROI

FROM : Gen Kiyooka
DATE : Tue Apr 12 02:45:48 2005

Hi Joseph,

At WWDC2003 I stood up at the Cocoa feedback forum and requested a
return of Yellowbox for Windows, which would alleviate most of the
drawbacks you mention below.

  However, since that time, I have completely changed my mind.
Although I am primarily a Carbon/C++ developer, my take on this is that
Apple is back in the driver's seat vis a vis innovation and that is the
single greatest
value that they can deliver to their ISV's.

With the addition of Carbon as a more orthodox C-based API, and the
extremely wide range of unix cross-platform development tools, I see
OSX as a richer environment, not a poorer one.

Around 1990, I was a Windows developer and everyone in the DOS
had serious questions about why they would ever want to develop for it.
I told them I thought everything on PC machines was going to move to
Windows.
Over the following few years, every major software company on the PC
side that
failed to make an investment in Windows 'disappeared'.  WordPerfect,
for instance,
had $800M in annual revenue only a couple of years before it was on the
auction block.

I believe a similar shift is coming.  People have had about 10 years to
get
used to using windowing operating systems on PCs.  There's a lot of
pent-up frustration
there and Apple is providing a solution that customers are naturally
drawn to.
The incredible retail environment at the Apple stores and the success
of the iPod all point to
a massive shift away from Windows.  I say, this is a great time to
invest in OSX development,
and Apple is doing exactly what they should be doing, which is ignoring
what they
are doing in Redmond, or in Linux, or whatever, and do what they do
best, which
is invent the future, like it ain't nothing to them.

I have a brand new hyperthreaded Dell laptop.  It sits under my desk, I
never turn it on.

If you need a great high-productivity x-platform environment and still
want to work
on OSX, I think that RealBasic is an interesting alternative,
especially for business
process development.  One cannot say it isn't a serious development
tool, since they
support it in Microsoft Office on the Mac at the same level as VBA (or
whatever it is now called).

Another option is to use Cocoa for your Windowing/GUI code and build
core functionality
in C++, which is a successful development model spearheaded by the
Lotus Improv team.

Speaking of Improv, now that we have Pages for OSX, and an Apple-IBM
partnership, when
are we going to get Improv back?  I stare at the box every day above my
NeXT cube and ask
myself that question...  Now that would be revolutionary.

Gen

On Apr 11, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Joseph Graham wrote:

> Hello,
> Sorry if this is Off-Topic but I am trying to invoke a technical as
> well as
> business discussion here.
>
> Have been wanting to throw out a few observations about the WWDC and
> Apple's
> plans for Return on Investment for Cocoa developers.  With respect to
> the
> WWDC it appears they are really pushing "Tiger APIs", bringing out the
> chief
> engineers, hands-on labs etc..
>
> In my humble opinion this is really great.  My attempt at Cocoa
> development
> has found the platform incredibly productive.  But I think that Cocoa
> is a
> steep learning curve to many veteran IT developers who are not versed
> in
> ObjC.  Also Cocoa is still not "portable" because of licensing issues
> associated with desktop applications development on WO. This is also
> to say
> that even if there weren't any such issues it is extremely unlikely
> Apple
> would even consider maintaining the Cocoa APIs on other platforms.
>
> I know that other platforms and technologies such as Mono, Ruby, J2SE,
> and
> PHP are actively embracing other operating systems and platforms (i.e.
> Web,
> desktop, mobile, handheld).  I know these technologies are mostly
> available
> for OSX and they are not mutually exclusive.  I think that by adopting
> these
> technologies for development projects have relatively massive ROI
> because of
> deployment scenarios available.  I am not trying to introduce arguments
> about "debugging everywhere" et. Al. rather I am saying that this gives
> stakeholders options to control their deployment costs (i.e. Licensing
> platform technologies and related contributions).
>
> So my main question is what is Apple's ROI plan for Cocoa?  Why would
> anyone
> put forth a huge investment in Cocoa such as massive Cocoa-Native
> projects?
> Every large application I have seen from Macromedia to Alias uses J2SE
> or
> Carbon bridging technologies.  I know they are rolling out amazing new
> and
> highly productive new Cocoa APIs such as Spotlight and their new
> multimedia
> libraries.  What is Apple serving to protect by not releasing their
> Cocoa
> technologies to the open source community why other technologies
> continue to
> evolve and reap the massive benefits?  There are already so many open
> source
> multimedia APIs and even searching/indexing APIs that have liberal open
> source licenses that even my first choice wouldn't be Cocoa if I knew I
> could deploy the application elsewhere.  How does Apple quantify
> "productivity benefits" vs. keeping their technologies closed?  What
> about
> the would-be Linux and uSoft migrators who still have an investment in
> those
> platforms seeking new, more productive technologies?
>
> This also brings about other questions such as is Apple only seeking to
> maintain its foothold in the multimedia and film industry niche? 
> Shouldn't
> they offer a technology migration plan that serves the financial
> interests
> of those making the biggest investment of all which is adopting a new
> platform?  What is Apple serving to protect by keeping Cocoa a closed
> technology? (Quartz?)  Why couldn't Cocoa and projects such as GNUStep
> "converge" at some point?
>
>
> ** DISCLAIMER **
> This is not an attempt to start inflamed discussions nor is this an
> attempt
> to degrade any technology or approach.  Correspondence involving
> marketing
> approaches, historical and technical reasoning, for adopting Cocoa for
> desktop applications development are most welcome.  Citations from
> Apple's
> marketing and business research division are even more welcome.
>
>
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