Hacker's Fate
-
By now I am sure you have all seen this article by Scott Hacker.
http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/2558
Both Scott and his father have had difficulties with iPhoto and
iTunes scaling up to the use they want.
iTunes at any rate is a container for the NSTableView, what I can
determine, and Scott's experience only confirms my previous
misgivings in this matter.
I further suggest to our friend in Maryland that Scott and his
father must have somehow rigged their tests; and to our friend in
Switzerland, that it might be a good idea to accuse Scott and his
father of being sloppy programmers.
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On Friday, Jan 17, 2003, at 09:14 US/Pacific, Rixster @ Rixstep wrote:>
> iTunes at any rate is a container for the NSTableView, what I can
> determine, and Scott's experience only confirms my previous
> misgivings in this matter.
iTunes is not Cocoa but still Carbon so it does not contain a
NSTableView.
Thanks,
Andrew Pinski
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On 17/1/03 5:14 pm, Rixster @ Rixstep <rixstep000...> wrote:> By now I am sure you have all seen this article by Scott Hacker.
>
> http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/2558
>
> Both Scott and his father have had difficulties with iPhoto and
> iTunes scaling up to the use they want.
>
> iTunes at any rate is a container for the NSTableView, what I can
> determine, and Scott's experience only confirms my previous
> misgivings in this matter.
Nice troll.
iTunes is a Carbon app.
iPhoto is a Cocoa app on the other hand, but you have not proven that its
sluggishness is due to NSTableView.
Cheers,
Chris
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This is going to be a concern for me too, and I confess I did not follow
the previous thread closely enough.
Simply put, has anyone got a working app that displays, say, 1,000,000
rows through a table view with reasonable performance? I want to
implement an application that can do that.
By the way, at least one application in my area of interest (the
Molecular Operating Environment) seems able to do this in X-windows, so
it clearly is possible. I was shocked at how rapidly MOE could scroll
through an enormous table with 100,000's of compounds - and display a
little chemical structure at the front of each row for good measure!
Have a good weekend,
Randy
On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 12:14 PM, Rixster @ Rixstep wrote:> By now I am sure you have all seen this article by Scott Hacker.
>
> http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/2558
>
> Both Scott and his father have had difficulties with iPhoto and
> iTunes scaling up to the use they want.
>
> iTunes at any rate is a container for the NSTableView, what I can
> determine, and Scott's experience only confirms my previous
> misgivings in this matter.
>
> I further suggest to our friend in Maryland that Scott and his
> father must have somehow rigged their tests; and to our friend in
> Switzerland, that it might be a good idea to accuse Scott and his
> father of being sloppy programmers.
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> cocoa-dev mailing list | <cocoa-dev...>
> Help/Unsubscribe/Archives:
> http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev
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>
>
Randy J. Zauhar, PhD
Assoc. Prof. of Biochemistry
Director, Graduate Program in Bioinformatics
Dept. of Chemistry & Biochemistry
University of the Sciences in Philadelphia
600 S. 43rd Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104
Phone: (215)596-8691
FAX: (215)596-8543
E-mail: <r.zauhar...>
Web: http://tonga.usip.edu/zauhar
Discussion after watching Disney's "Lilo & Stitch":
DAD: "But why did the space aliens speak English, as opposed to French,
or Swahili? And why did the one alien speak English with an Eastern
European accent? I don't get it."
CATHERINE (age 7): "That's 'cause you don't have a good cartoon brain."
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On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 12:02 PM, zauhar wrote:> This is going to be a concern for me too, and I confess I did not
> follow the previous thread closely enough.
>
> Simply put, has anyone got a working app that displays, say, 1,000,000
> rows through a table view with reasonable performance? I want to
> implement an application that can do that.
>
> By the way, at least one application in my area of interest (the
> Molecular Operating Environment) seems able to do this in X-windows,
> so it clearly is possible. I was shocked at how rapidly MOE could
> scroll through an enormous table with 100,000's of compounds - and
> display a little chemical structure at the front of each row for good
> measure!
1) It was a troll. Search the list archives for a recent thread about
this very issue, started by rixstep.
2) NSTableView is quite scalable. The long and short of it is that the
ONLY bottleneck is how you implement your NSTableDataSource object.
Here is an example I posted, with extremely alpha quality code mind
you, that shows how to use NSTableView with millions of rows.
http://www.mindlube.com/download/files/Tabularity%200.1.dmg
Now some will say this proves nothing, because it's not a stable app or
it's not finished, or it's sloppily coded or whatever. But that's
totally evading the point. The point is very simple. Be smart in
implementing your NSTableDataSource.
Alex Rice <alex...> | Mindlube Software |
http://mindlube.com
what a waste of thumbs that are opposable
to make machines that are disposable -Ani DiFranco
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> Both Scott and his father have had difficulties with iPhoto and
> iTunes scaling up to the use they want.
>
I would suggest the two scaling problems are not to do with anything
inherently ObjC.
Taking iTunes first, the entire library seems to be stored in a
flat-file. I would suggest it is not much better when held in memory.
The problem is how the data is stored - quite correctly, Scott pointed
out that databases can do this no problem but iTunes is NOT a database
and has chosen the wrong file format for its library!
iPhoto is more likely getting bogged down with it's images. 800 images
is rather a lot to throw around (I remember earlier versions of OS X
that could not really cope with more than about 100 different icons
before it stopped drawing some of them). Scott doesn't mention whether
his problems only occur when showing ALL his images or whether he still
has problems when dealing only with reels at a time. Come to mention
it, I bet he's trying to use the big long list to navigate his iTunes
music as well, instead of using the browse button and selecting by
genre or something.
Still, in both cases, it's unlikely to be the ui that is at fault...
Robert
---
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On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 12:02 PM, zauhar wrote:>> Simply put, has anyone got a working app that displays, say, 1,000,000
>> rows through a table view with reasonable performance? I want to
>> implement an application that can do that.
Yes, I have: using SQLite (http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite) and Cocoa.
Performance? It's pretty darn fast even with 1,000,000 records.> 2) NSTableView is quite scalable. The long and short of it is that the
> ONLY bottleneck is how you implement your NSTableDataSource object.
> Here is an example I posted, with extremely alpha quality code mind
> you, that shows how to use NSTableView with millions of rows.
>
> http://www.mindlube.com/download/files/Tabularity%200.1.dmg
>
> Now some will say this proves nothing, because it's not a stable app or
> it's not finished, or it's sloppily coded or whatever. But that's
> totally evading the point. The point is very simple. Be smart in
> implementing your NSTableDataSource.
Since Tabularity requires BDB, I created an app with the SQLite engine
included, so there's no need to download and install anything else.
If you want to try it, you can download it here:
http://homepage.mac.com/tciuro
It uses the NSTableView we all love, nothing more, nothing less. If you
decide to try with 1,000,000 records, I *strongly* suggest that you
don't index the table, because it'll take way too much. You've been
warned!
The NSTableView data source is the database itself, and the data is not
loaded in an array. Since SQLite is pretty fast getting the data, it
fetches it directly. With 1,000,000 records, you'll sure hear the disk
drive when you scroll though! :)> The point is very simple. Be smart in implementing your
> NSTableDataSource.
I couldn't agree more.
Regards,
-- Tito
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On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 08:11 AM, Tito Ciuro wrote:> Since Tabularity requires BDB, I created an app with the SQLite engine
> included, so there's no need to download and install anything else.
>
> If you want to try it, you can download it here:
> http://homepage.mac.com/tciuro
Excellent! This is a more informative and useful app than Tabularity.
BTW Tabularity is statically linked with BerkeleyDB, so thats only
required if you are recompiling it.>
>> The point is very simple. Be smart in implementing your
>> NSTableDataSource.
>
> I couldn't agree more.
>
Alex Rice <alex...> | Mindlube Software |
http://mindlube.com
what a waste of thumbs that are opposable
to make machines that are disposable -Ani DiFranco
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