delaying forced sleep after initial 30 seconds delay

  • Hi,

    I want my app to delay forced sleep even after requesting the initial delay of 30 seconds.
    This have to be specifically set by the user in the Preferences of the app and only when the user clicks  a button to run some operation, for the duration of that operation which could extent to a minute or two.

    I know it would be against the mac os x design principles, but I think in the end it has to be the user's wish.

    I have seen my macbook pro sometime taking more than 2 minutes to go into sleep, after closing the lid. So is this possible at all?

    The scenario is that user has set the preference to delay forced sleep and then he clicks the button on the app and then closes the laptop lid, knowing fully well that it may delay sleep for a few minutes.

    Wishes,
    Nick
  • On May 2, 2013, at 21:16 , Nick Rogers <roger_s1...> wrote:

    > I want my app to delay forced sleep even after requesting the initial delay of 30 seconds.
    > This have to be specifically set by the user in the Preferences of the app and only when the user clicks  a button to run some operation, for the duration of that operation which could extent to a minute or two.
    >
    > I know it would be against the mac os x design principles, but I think in the end it has to be the user's wish.
    >
    > I have seen my macbook pro sometime taking more than 2 minutes to go into sleep, after closing the lid. So is this possible at all?

    It's worth watching the 2012 WWDC session video on Power Management. The relevant APIs are here:

    https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/IOKit/Reference/IOPM
    Lib_header_reference/Reference/reference.html


    I don't see any reason to think this violates any Mac design principles.
  • On Thu, May 2, 2013, at 09:16 PM, Nick Rogers wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I want my app to delay forced sleep even after requesting the initial
    > delay of 30 seconds.

    Forced sleep exists for cases in which keeping the machine awake can
    cause hardware failure.

    >
    > I have seen my macbook pro sometime taking more than 2 minutes to go into
    > sleep, after closing the lid. So is this possible at all?

    This shouldn't happen. It's a bad thing when it does. So the system is
    designed to prevent you from causing it to happen.

    Please don't try to give your users a "Ruin My Hardware" checkbox.

    --Kyle Sluder
  • Hi,

    Thanks for all the inputs.
    The app doesn't run any scheduled operations.
    So the situation would occur only when the user wants it to.

    Best,
    Nick

    On 03-May-2013, at 10:26 AM, Kyle Sluder <kyle...> wrote:

    > On Thu, May 2, 2013, at 09:16 PM, Nick Rogers wrote:
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I want my app to delay forced sleep even after requesting the initial
    >> delay of 30 seconds.
    >
    > Forced sleep exists for cases in which keeping the machine awake can
    > cause hardware failure.
    >
    >>
    >> I have seen my macbook pro sometime taking more than 2 minutes to go into
    >> sleep, after closing the lid. So is this possible at all?
    >
    > This shouldn't happen. It's a bad thing when it does. So the system is
    > designed to prevent you from causing it to happen.
    >
    > Please don't try to give your users a "Ruin My Hardware" checkbox.
    >
    > --Kyle Sluder
  • On May 3, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Nick Rogers <roger_s1...> wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > Thanks for all the inputs.
    > The app doesn't run any scheduled operations.
    > So the situation would occur only when the user wants it to.

    No. It will happen at the worst possible time.

    Forced sleep is forced for a reason.

    --Kyle Sluder
  • On May 2, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Kyle Sluder <kyle...> wrote:

    > This shouldn't happen. It's a bad thing when it does. So the system is
    > designed to prevent you from causing it to happen.
    >
    > Please don't try to give your users a "Ruin My Hardware" checkbox.

    The question is whether running the CPU while the lid is shut will overheat the system. Overheating will very definitely damage the hardware — in particular, heat-related GPU failures have been very common on some MBP models. (The temperature sensor is supposed to cut power before this point, but apparently it doesn't always.)

    I know that older Mac laptops could run with the lid closed, so that you could use them with an external display without using the internal screen. However, those laptops had more ventilation. With the current one-piece aluminum chassis the only ventilation is through the vents parallel to the screen hinge, and with the lid shut it seems like those would be mostly blocked.

    Once or twice I've had a unibody Macbook Pro fail to go to sleep when I tucked it into my backpack, and it's come out quite hot, as in the bottom plate was almost painful to touch. That definitely does not seem good for it.

    —Jens
  • FWIW, I just had an SMS issue with my MPB that I have several SSDs in.

    I hit a speed bump when driving home and this triggered the SMS which I swore I set to off in the terminal.  Well, I was wrong and somehow, the SMS triggered while the device was closed and the device became hot enough to turn the fans on until the battery ran out while it was closed.

    Due to thermal expansion, it turned out that the keyboard and mouse stopped working after about 8 hours of use.  A reseating of the thin kb/mouse cable fixed that but still, important things can burn out or move when the device overheats.

    I downloaded and built a 64 bit version of SMC FanControl that can be set to crank the fans if your Mac's thermal sensors are over a certain temperature and not my 17 rarely gets over 129°F.  I'm sure something like this would help if you want to run your MBP with a closed lid.

    On May 3, 2013, at 2:50 PM, Jens Alfke wrote:

    >
    > On May 2, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Kyle Sluder <kyle...> wrote:
    >
    >> This shouldn't happen. It's a bad thing when it does. So the system is
    >> designed to prevent you from causing it to happen.
    >>
    >> Please don't try to give your users a "Ruin My Hardware" checkbox.
    >
    > The question is whether running the CPU while the lid is shut will overheat the system. Overheating will very definitely damage the hardware — in particular, heat-related GPU failures have been very common on some MBP models. (The temperature sensor is supposed to cut power before this point, but apparently it doesn't always.)
    >
    > I know that older Mac laptops could run with the lid closed, so that you could use them with an external display without using the internal screen. However, those laptops had more ventilation. With the current one-piece aluminum chassis the only ventilation is through the vents parallel to the screen hinge, and with the lid shut it seems like those would be mostly blocked.
    >
    > Once or twice I've had a unibody Macbook Pro fail to go to sleep when I tucked it into my backpack, and it's come out quite hot, as in the bottom plate was almost painful to touch. That definitely does not seem good for it.
    >
    > —Jens
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