Getting started PB -> PBX

  • All,

    I've read a number of posts about how thoroughly displeased people
    are with the new project builder.  I'm about ready to scream myself, but I'm
    hoping that my struggles are due to ignorance and not bugs/lack of features.

    Is there a document describing the changes from the old PB to the
    new PBX?  I'm lost on a few major points, and I can't seem to find any
    ansers in PBX's documentation.

    1)    Dragging source files into a new project does not actually copy
    those files into the project, it just references them from the location from
    which they were dragged (no option is given to do otherwise).

    2)    I cannot seem to double-click on any non-leaf node to add a
    file/resource through an open panel.

    3)    Files in the outline view are not treated as files on the file
    sytem.  That is, I cannot drag a file from the outline view into another
    project.  I cannot double-click on a pdf file and have it opened in preview,
    etc etc etc.

    4)    Makefiles.  It seems that PBX is using something new called JAM.
    What are we supposed to do with all of our extensions to the makefiles that
    do post build stuff like jarsigning, and the like?  Do I now have to support
    two build environments, Mac OS X and others (NT & Solaris)?

    5)    Where/how can I specify an alternate compiler along with its
    specifications?  With the old PB, I could use jikes and specify the format
    of the error messages in a separate file (jikesSpec.plist).

    6)    Ctrl-s doesn't work anymore.  How can I bring up a handy/quick
    search panel (please don't anyone tell me that the find panel is handy or
    unobtrusive)?

    7)    Ctrl-x-s doesn't work anymore, even if I add a target in my
    KeyBindings (maybe I just don't have the right method name.  I assumed it is
    "save:", but maybe it isn't?)

    8)    I can't find anyway to browse the methods in a java file (I'm
    assuming the same is true of objective-c files).

    I have yet to find one new feature of PBX that I like.  Could anyone
    please tell me about a cool feature of this tool so that I can reflect a
    little more positively on it?

    Thanks,
    Paul
  • All,

    I banged my head into the wall a couple of times and tried to crack
    the doc again.  Most of my questions remain unanswered, but, after
    frantically clicking for 10 minutes, I found one very important but fairly
    obscure and difficult to find piece of UI.  I found that, if you click on
    the Targets tab, and click on a target in the upper left split pane (it
    doesn't seem to be sufficient that a target is show selected in gray, the
    target must be the key view) a magic pane appears in the bottom right hand
    side with a whole bunch of neato settings like scripts, environment
    variables, source paths, etc.

    Also, I found that, if I index a project, a magic pop-up list
    appears when a file is selected that shows all of the methods of the class
    (but, unfortunately, it does not show any of the fields).

    Also, I shouldn't have been so critical of the find panel.  While it
    is annoying having a panel pop-up in front of everything, it does go away
    immediately when something is found, and I can keep searching with
    command-g, so, other than it's initial obtrusiveness, it works pretty much
    the same as the old search.

    Regards,
    Paul

    [ -----Original Message-----
    [ From: Paul R. Summermatter
    [ Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 7:48 PM
    [ To: '<macosx-dev...>'
    [ Subject: Getting started PB -> PBX
    [
    [
    [ All,
    [
    [     I've read a number of posts about how thoroughly
    [ displeased people are with the new project builder.  I'm
    [ about ready to scream myself, but I'm hoping that my
    [ struggles are due to ignorance and not bugs/lack of features.
    [
    [     Is there a document describing the changes from the old
    [ PB to the new PBX?  I'm lost on a few major points, and I
    [ can't seem to find any ansers in PBX's documentation.
    [
    [ 1)    Dragging source files into a new project does not
    [ actually copy those files into the project, it just
    [ references them from the location from which they were
    [ dragged (no option is given to do otherwise).
    [
    [ 2)    I cannot seem to double-click on any non-leaf node to
    [ add a file/resource through an open panel.
    [
    [ 3)    Files in the outline view are not treated as files on
    [ the file sytem.  That is, I cannot drag a file from the
    [ outline view into another project.  I cannot double-click on
    [ a pdf file and have it opened in preview, etc etc etc.
    [
    [ 4)    Makefiles.  It seems that PBX is using something new
    [ called JAM.  What are we supposed to do with all of our
    [ extensions to the makefiles that do post build stuff like
    [ jarsigning, and the like?  Do I now have to support two build
    [ environments, Mac OS X and others (NT & Solaris)?
    [
    [ 5)    Where/how can I specify an alternate compiler along
    [ with its specifications?  With the old PB, I could use jikes
    [ and specify the format of the error messages in a separate
    [ file (jikesSpec.plist).
    [
    [ 6)    Ctrl-s doesn't work anymore.  How can I bring up a
    [ handy/quick search panel (please don't anyone tell me that
    [ the find panel is handy or unobtrusive)?
    [
    [ 7)    Ctrl-x-s doesn't work anymore, even if I add a target
    [ in my KeyBindings (maybe I just don't have the right method
    [ name.  I assumed it is "save:", but maybe it isn't?)
    [
    [ 8)    I can't find anyway to browse the methods in a java
    [ file (I'm assuming the same is true of objective-c files).
    [
    [     I have yet to find one new feature of PBX that I like.
    [ Could anyone please tell me about a cool feature of this tool
    [ so that I can reflect a little more positively on it?
    [
    [ Thanks,
    [ Paul
    [
  • > I have yet to find one new feature of PBX that I like.
    Could anyone
    > please tell me about a cool feature of this tool so that I can
    reflect a
    > little more positively on it?

    I find the UI of PBX awful myself. In fact, I find it so bad that I
    was discouraged to even start an email to Apple's feedback. But I've
    heard that developers coming from other development environments
    (Code Warrior and the like I imagine) feel at ease.

    Here's one cool feature: you can browse variables in the debugger
    again. Something which was available in NEXTSTEP days, but was gone
    for too long. Of course, the downside is that it is done not in a
    browser, but in one of these ugly and unfriendly outline views...

    Marco Scheurer
    Sen:te, Lausanne, Switzerland          http://www.sente.ch
  • On Monday, March 26, 2001, at 07:18  AM, Marco Scheurer wrote:

    >> I have yet to find one new feature of PBX that I like.
    > Could anyone
    >> please tell me about a cool feature of this tool so that I can
    > reflect a
    >> little more positively on it?
    >
    > I find the UI of PBX awful myself. In fact, I find it so bad that I
    > was discouraged to even start an email to Apple's feedback. But I've
    > heard that developers coming from other development environments
    > (Code Warrior and the like I imagine) feel at ease.
    >
    > Here's one cool feature: you can browse variables in the debugger
    > again. Something which was available in NEXTSTEP days, but was gone
    > for too long. Of course, the downside is that it is done not in a
    > browser, but in one of these ugly and unfriendly outline views...

    Unfortunately, the business of trying to cram everything into the same
    window makes that display of variables pretty close to useless.  Once
    you've expanded self->bounds->size in an NSView, it's pretty hard to see
    any other ivars of that view.  I usually just pull down the GDB console
    window, and do it myself.

    Does anyone know how to make PB let me run GDB in a terminal window?  I
    want some ROOM.  For that matter, after all these years, why are we
    still unable to single-step through multiple operations on the same line
    in the source?  GDB can do it, why can't Apple's front-end?

    I flamed Apple pretty badly
    (http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/archive/macosx-
    dev/2000-May/001832.html) when this thing first hit the streets in DP4,
    (or was it DP3?) and I'm sad to see that the project builder UI is still
    pretty wretched.  Sure, it's great that PB no longer imposes any
    particular directory layout on your project, but as far as usefulness as
    an IDE goes, it's pretty weak.

    In the previous PB, I could select a variable in the source, and hit a
    button to display its current value, or de-reference it and print.  If I
    can do that now, the functionality is pretty well-hidden.

    IB is still the best of breed GUI-building app, and Cocoa is the best
    app framework around.  It's a pity that the IDE is so mediocre.  I'm not
    sure who it was that went all tab-happy over there, but he needs to be
    reassigned.

    -jcr
  • > IB is still the best of breed GUI-building app, and Cocoa is the best
    > app framework around.  It's a pity that the IDE is so mediocre.  I'm
    > not sure who it was that went all tab-happy over there, but he needs to
    > be reassigned.

    While we're suggesting candidates for reassignment, my vote goes for
    whoever it was that's stopped step, run, next and continue working in
    the gdb console... now you have to use the buttons and, if you forget,
    your gdb session is screwed for good. Is it a coincidence that these
    commands join to give 'continue run nextstep' ?

    -- Gideon
  • > -----Original Message-----
    > From: John C. Randolph [mailto:<jcr...>]

    > On Monday, March 26, 2001, at 07:18  AM, Marco Scheurer wrote:
    >
    >>> I have yet to find one new feature of PBX that I like.
    >> Could anyone
    >>> please tell me about a cool feature of this tool so that I can
    >> reflect a
    >>> little more positively on it?

    A little hint: Apple has a Project Builder mailing list set up:

    http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/projectbuilder-users

    If there are any features missing, that's the place to complain, because you
    can get in touch directly with Apple's PB-Team.

    _____________________________________
    Jens Baumeister
    Bullex GmbH, Cologne, Germany

    She sells c-shells by the sea shore.
  • On Monday, March 26, 2001, at 07:07 PM, Gideon Tearle wrote:

    >
    >
    >> IB is still the best of breed GUI-building app, and Cocoa is the best
    >> app framework around.  It's a pity that the IDE is so mediocre.  I'm
    >> not sure who it was that went all tab-happy over there, but he needs
    >> to be reassigned.
    >
    >
    > While we're suggesting candidates for reassignment, my vote goes for
    > whoever it was that's stopped step, run, next and continue working in
    > the gdb console... now you have to use the buttons and, if you forget,
    > your gdb session is screwed for good. Is it a coincidence that these
    > commands join to give 'continue run nextstep' ?

    continue is working perfectly well. So I suppose the other are also
    working.
  • > jcr wrote:
    > Unfortunately, the business of trying to cram everything into the same
    > window makes that display of variables pretty close to useless.  Once
    > you've expanded self->bounds->size in an NSView, it's pretty hard to see
    > any other ivars of that view...

    > Does anyone know how to make PB let me run GDB in a terminal window?  I
    > want some ROOM.  For that matter, after all these years, why are we
    > still unable to single-step through multiple operations on the same line
    > in the source?  GDB can do it, why can't Apple's front-end?...

    > IB is still the best of breed GUI-building app, and Cocoa is the best
    > app framework around.  It's a pity that the IDE is so mediocre.  I'm not
    > sure who it was that went all tab-happy over there, but he needs to be
    > reassigned.

    Someone saw all those windows we like to have open at the same time
    while we're developing as "clutter" and moved to prevent it, thus
    tying our hands.  Personally, I want that 60 inch diagonal screen
    for my POWERbook with the 1000 dpi resolution so that I can have
    a bunch of windows open, side-by-side, and still be able to read
    them and take in all their interconnections/interactions.

    For now, I'd be a little happier if I could have multiple batch
    search result windows.

    John G. Otto                            Nisus Software, Engineering
    www.infoclick.com  www.mathhelp.com  www.nisus.com  software4usa.com
    EasyAlarms  PowerSleuth  NisusEMail  NisusWriter  MailKeeper  QUED/M
      My opinions are probably not those of Nisus Software, Inc.
  • Hi St├ęphane

    >> Is it a coincidence that these commands join to give 'continue run
    nextstep' ?

    > continue is working perfectly well. So I suppose the other are also
    working.

    How do you get 'continue' to work? For me the behaviour under final is
    as described in the release notes:

    > Note: Unfortunately, the MI facility in GDB does not support
    > intermixing of target control commands from the Console and the GUI.
    > Therefore, do not issue the "step", "next", "run", or "continue"
    > command from the Project Builder GDB Console; use the buttons, menu
    > items, or command key equivalents to control the target.

    Best wishes

    -- Gideon
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