Backup software for OS X
-
I have a serious problem here.... I'm sitting in front of an iMac DV with
Mac OS X 10.0 and no possible way of backing it up. I can't use Retrospect
because it won't deal with symbolic links. I can't use "tar" because it
doesn't understand resource forks. I can't even use the Finder, because it
doesn't know about hidden files.
Right now I need to back up my data, re-partition and re-format my hard
drive, and re-load all my data back onto it. I can't do that because I
have no backup software. Why didn't Apple include something with the OS?
Every review I read complains about Apple not shipping DVD or CD-R/RW
software with the OS. I can hardly believe it -- I can live without DVD
playback, or I can boot into 9.1 for that if necessary, but I can't live
without a way to backup my system. That's a basic utility everyone should
have and every OS should ship with.
Are there any options I have overlooked? Any backup programs that I don't
know about?
There is a limit to how long I can continue running a Macintosh without the
ability to back it up. It's that serious. If I don't find software for
this, at some point I'll have to either switch to a different platform or
grit my teeth and code my own backup software (no small job, that). -
On Wednesday, April 11, 2001, at 12:56 , Tony Belding wrote:> I have a serious problem here.... I'm sitting in front of an iMac DV
> with Mac OS X 10.0 and no possible way of backing it up. I can't use
> Retrospect because it won't deal with symbolic links. I can't use "tar"
> because it doesn't understand resource forks. I can't even use the
> Finder, because it doesn't know about hidden files.
You should just copy your home-directory in the finder. In contains all
important information. You could create a compressed disk image (see
stepwise) for it.
The Finder copies hidden files that are stored inside Folders that are
copied (I hope that's clear :).
andy
--
Discussion forthcoming. -
On Tuesday, April 10, 2001, at 03:56 PM, Tony Belding wrote:> I have a serious problem here.... I'm sitting in front of an iMac DV
> with Mac OS X 10.0 and no possible way of backing it up. I can't use
> Retrospect because it won't deal with symbolic links. I can't use
> "tar" because it doesn't understand resource forks. I can't even use
> the Finder, because it doesn't know about hidden files.
You might want to take a moment and curse Dantz and the US Patent Office
to hell, for making Omni take OmniBackup off the market because (are you
ready for this?) Dantz has a *patent* on keeping an index of what's on
a backup tape.
It seems to me that I've heard of a tar variant that does deal with
resource forks, but I'm afraid I don't recall where to get it.
-jcr
"The right to be heard does not include the right to be taken
seriously." - Hubert Humphrey -
If dump is copying the resource forks/HFS+ file system then
an easy way would be to use amanda
from www.amanda.org
[some time ago we compiled amanda as a client for a mac OS X server machine, but we then
had difficulties to specify the volumes to back up and since the machine did
not contained critical data we stopped trying].
Peter
shoud loOn Tue, 10 Apr 2001, John C. Randolph wrote:>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2001, at 03:56 PM, Tony Belding wrote:
>
>> I have a serious problem here.... I'm sitting in front of an iMac DV
>> with Mac OS X 10.0 and no possible way of backing it up. I can't use
>> Retrospect because it won't deal with symbolic links. I can't use
>> "tar" because it doesn't understand resource forks. I can't even use
>> the Finder, because it doesn't know about hidden files.
>
> You might want to take a moment and curse Dantz and the US Patent Office
> to hell, for making Omni take OmniBackup off the market because (are you
> ready for this?) Dantz has a *patent* on keeping an index of what's on
> a backup tape.
>
> It seems to me that I've heard of a tar variant that does deal with
> resource forks, but I'm afraid I don't recall where to get it.
>
> -jcr
>
> "The right to be heard does not include the right to be taken
> seriously." - Hubert Humphrey
> _______________________________________________
> MacOSX-dev mailing list
> <MacOSX-dev...>
> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-dev
>
--
Peter Beerli Genetics 357360, University of Washington
<beerli...> Seattle WA 98195 USA, Phone: 206 543 8751
<beerli...> Fax:(206) 543-0754; GMT+0800
http://evolution.genetics.washington.edu/PBhtmls/beerli.html -
I have been using compressed disk images to back up some stuff, and
then gz'ing them.
See the article on stepwise on how to make a disk image.
then mount it.
then copy files over.
All of this can be done using a nice unix command line script.
Steps 2 and 3 can most likely be done using AppleScript and the finder.
Eric
On Tuesday, April 10, 2001, at 05:56 PM, Tony Belding wrote:> I have a serious problem here.... I'm sitting in front of an iMac
> DV with Mac OS X 10.0 and no possible way of backing it up. I
> can't use Retrospect because it won't deal with symbolic links. I
> can't use "tar" because it doesn't understand resource forks. I
> can't even use the Finder, because it doesn't know about hidden
> files.
>
> Right now I need to back up my data, re-partition and re-format my
> hard drive, and re-load all my data back onto it. I can't do that
> because I have no backup software. Why didn't Apple include
> something with the OS?
>
> Every review I read complains about Apple not shipping DVD or CD-
> R/RW software with the OS. I can hardly believe it -- I can live
> without DVD playback, or I can boot into 9.1 for that if
> necessary, but I can't live without a way to backup my system.
> That's a basic utility everyone should have and every OS should
> ship with.
>
> Are there any options I have overlooked? Any backup programs that
> I don't know about?
>
> There is a limit to how long I can continue running a Macintosh
> without the ability to back it up. It's that serious. If I don't
> find software for this, at some point I'll have to either switch
> to a different platform or grit my teeth and code my own backup
> software (no small job, that).
> _______________________________________________
> MacOSX-dev mailing list
> <MacOSX-dev...>
> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-dev -
At 5:56 PM -0500 4/10/01, Tony Belding wrote:> I have a serious problem here.... I'm sitting in front of an iMac DV with Mac OS X 10.0 and no possible way of backing it up. I can't use Retrospect because it won't deal with symbolic links. I can't use "tar" because it doesn't understand resource forks. I can't even use the Finder, because it doesn't know about hidden files.
Use hfstar
http://www.metaobject.com/downloads/macos-x/
Synk may be able to handle all UNIX files in the future. Unfortunately right now it thinks fifos are aliases or something (if you use fifos) -
What peoples' experiences with hfstar? Any problems?
On Wednesday, April 11, 2001, at 01:56 AM, strobe anarkhos wrote:> At 5:56 PM -0500 4/10/01, Tony Belding wrote:
>> I have a serious problem here.... I'm sitting in front of an iMac DV
>> with Mac OS X 10.0 and no possible way of backing it up. I can't use
>> Retrospect because it won't deal with symbolic links. I can't use
>> "tar" because it doesn't understand resource forks. I can't even use
>> the Finder, because it doesn't know about hidden files.
>
> Use hfstar
>
> http://www.metaobject.com/downloads/macos-x/
>
> Synk may be able to handle all UNIX files in the future. Unfortunately
> right now it thinks fifos are aliases or something (if you use fifos) -
On Wednesday, April 11, 2001, at 01:09 AM, Mike Vannorsdel wrote:> What peoples' experiences with hfstar? Any problems?I can't get it to compile. I get the following error:
create.c: In function `get_finderInfo':
create.c:727: too few arguments to function `getattrlist'
But I haven't looked into it yet.
Alex Karahalios -
At 1:15 AM -0700 4/11/01, Alex Karahalios wrote:> On Wednesday, April 11, 2001, at 01:09 AM, Mike Vannorsdel wrote:
>
>> What peoples' experiences with hfstar? Any problems?
> I can't get it to compile. I get the following error:
>
> create.c: In function `get_finderInfo':
> create.c:727: too few arguments to function `getattrlist'
>
> But I haven't looked into it yet.
It was written for OS X Server so the function may have changed slightly. Should be minor -
Speaking of using the dimg, I can seem to keep file permissions with
this method. I want to copy user homes to the disk image and keep their
permissions. So I do, as root, "cp -r -p /Users/jdoe /Volume/myDisk/".
But the copied directory is owned by root and not jdoe. Isn't the p
flag supposed to preserve permissions on copy? Or am I doing something
wrong? -
On Wednesday, April 11, 2001, at 12:05 , Mike Vannorsdel wrote:> Speaking of using the dimg, I can seem to keep file permissions with this
> method. I want to copy user homes to the disk image and keep their
> permissions. So I do, as root, "cp -r -p /Users/jdoe /Volume/myDisk/".
> But the copied directory is owned by root and not jdoe. Isn't the p flag
> supposed to preserve permissions on copy? Or am I doing something wrong?
I think you have to mount the image as root, considering the following:
* you create an image with a suid root shell on it
* you move this image to another computer where you only got a regular
users account
* you mount the image
* boom - you got a root shell!
andy
--
Discussion forthcoming. -
At 10:24 PM -0700 4/10/01, John C. Randolph wrote:> You might want to take a moment and curse Dantz and the US Patent Office to
> hell, for making Omni take OmniBackup off the market because (are you ready
> for this?) Dantz has a *patent* on keeping an index of what's on a backup
> tape.
They could have just removed tape support. Now that X is in consumer
hands (instead of only developers and on servers), I'd imagine
there's a pretty good market for backup software that works with
removable drives.
--
__________________________________________________________________________
"The best assumption to have
Mark J. Lilback is that any commonly held
<mark...> belief is wrong." -- Ken Olsen,
http://www.lilback.com/ founder, Digital Equip. Corp. -
Am Mittwoch, April 11, 2001, um 10:09 AM, schrieb Mike Vannorsdel:> What peoples' experiences with hfstar? Any problems?
It works fine. You even can pack files with hfstar and unpack them with tar or gnutar. IRIX gnutar however coredumped when unpacking a hfstar archive.
A little annoying is the big bunch of Finder information which is written to output, even without the verbose flag. This should be easy to fix.
It whould be nice if this patch could be incorporated into the regular tar/gnutar. Well, some day ...
Markus -
John Randolph wrote:> On Tuesday, April 10, 2001, at 03:56 PM, Tony Belding wrote:
>
>> I have a serious problem here.... I'm sitting in front of an iMac DV
>> with Mac OS X 10.0 and no possible way of backing it up. I can't use
>> Retrospect because it won't deal with symbolic links. I can't use
>> "tar" because it doesn't understand resource forks. I can't even use
>> the Finder, because it doesn't know about hidden files.
>
> You might want to take a moment and curse Dantz and the US Patent Office
> to hell, for making Omni take OmniBackup off the market because (are you
> ready for this?) Dantz has a *patent* on keeping an index of what's on
> a backup tape.
If Omni is interested in pursuing the matter, I have at least one example
of prior art that goes back to the late '70s, and another that goes back
to the early '80s. The idea of a backup with an index is anything but new.
Dantz has a good product and their customer support is first-rate. But
their failure to support MacOS X at first release is a serious omission;
some competition would be good. I have the same concerns as Tony Belding:
how do I make sure that my development work doesn't all disappear?
-- Bruce
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Toback Tel: (602) 996-8601| My candle burns at both ends;
OPT, Inc. (800) 858-4507| It will not last the night;
11801 N. Tatum Blvd. Ste. 142 | But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends -
Phoenix AZ 85028 | It gives a lovely light.
<btoback...> | -- Edna St. Vincent Millay -
Am Mittwoch, April 11, 2001, um 01:11 AM, schrieb Andreas Monitzer:> You should just copy your home-directory in the finder. In contains all
> important information.
Hardly so. If you've installed a lot of apps in a lot of subhierarchies of /Applications, you most probably don't want to lose this. You most certainly don't want to lose your global app settings such as licenses in /Library, nor do you want to lose your network configuration in /etc/hostconfig and /var/db/, and do you wnat all your local UNIX stuff in /usr/local/?
And more complex installations such as ssh are not yet covered with this! (The startup items for it are missing, among other things.) And what about cron entries? And...
Sigh, I most probably forgot something...
Too bad OmniBackup wasn't Open Source. Then someone who still has it could simply put in on a server in a country that has no software patents, such as Germany.
Bye
Uli
________________________________________________________
Uli Zappe <uli...>
Lorscher StraÃe 5 http://www.ritual.org
D-60489 Frankfurt Fon: +49-700-ULIZAPPE
Germany Fax: +49-700-ZAPPEFAX
________________________________________________________ -
On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 01:10 , Uli Zappe wrote:> Hardly so. If you've installed a lot of apps in a lot of subhierarchies
> of /Applications, you most probably don't want to lose this. You most
> certainly don't want to lose your global app settings such as licenses in
> /Library, nor do you want to lose your network configuration in
> /etc/hostconfig and /var/db/, and do you wnat all your local UNIX stuff
> in /usr/local/?
>
> And more complex installations such as ssh are not yet covered with this!
> (The startup items for it are missing, among other things.) And what
> about cron entries? And...
Well, a "dd if=/dev/disk0 of=/Volumes/Backup/Backup.iso" should work fine
:)> Sigh, I most probably forgot something...
>
> Too bad OmniBackup wasn't Open Source. Then someone who still has it
> could simply put in on a server in a country that has no software patents,
> such as Germany.
The USA doesn't care about local law and what's right and what's not.
Remember DeCSS? The guy was arrested for breaking an US-law (he's
Norwegian I think) for something he did before that law (DCMA) even
existed.
(I think I'm getting OT :)
I think Omni would have to fight that patent.
andy
--
Description forthcoming. -
Will OmniBackup be moving to OS X?
Omni?
Cheers,
Ashley.>>> strobe anarkhos <anarkhos...> 04/11/01 05:55pm >>>At 1:15 AM -0700 4/11/01, Alex Karahalios wrote:> On Wednesday, April 11, 2001, at 01:09 AM, Mike Vannorsdel wrote:
>
>> What peoples' experiences with hfstar? Any problems?
> I can't get it to compile. I get the following error:
>
> create.c: In function `get_finderInfo':
> create.c:727: too few arguments to function `getattrlist'
>
> But I haven't looked into it yet.
It was written for OS X Server so the function may have changed slightly. Should be minor
_______________________________________________
MacOSX-dev mailing list
<MacOSX-dev...>
http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-dev -
On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 05:31 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote:>
> Will OmniBackup be moving to OS X?
I'd been lightly monitoring this thread and was concerned I couldn't
backup, so I tried today - no problem.
Assuming OS X is using HFS, I re-started to make the SCSI drive visible
(I will probably write a script in the near future to do the mounting
without a re-boot). Started Classic and backed up using Retrospect
Express.
Worked like a charm.
- jim -
I did the same thing before installing OS X over top of OS X PB, but I
still have an unanswered question.
Has anyone tried to do a restore? If I wipe my hard drive and restore
from backup will I be able to boot into
OS X?
Andrew
im Wilkinson wrote:> On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 05:31 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote:
>
>>
>> Will OmniBackup be moving to OS X?
>
> I'd been lightly monitoring this thread and was concerned I couldn't
> backup, so I tried today - no problem.
>
> Assuming OS X is using HFS, I re-started to make the SCSI drive visible
> (I will probably write a script in the near future to do the mounting
> without a re-boot). Started Classic and backed up using Retrospect
> Express.
>
> Worked like a charm.
>
> - jim -
On Thursday, April 12, 2001, jim Wilkinson wrote:>
> Will OmniBackup be moving to OS X?
>
> I'd been lightly monitoring this thread and was concerned I couldn't
> backup, so I tried today - no problem.
>
> Assuming OS X is using HFS, I re-started to make the SCSI drive visible
> (I will probably write a script in the near future to do the mounting
> without a re-boot). Started Classic and backed up using Retrospect
> Express.
>
> Worked like a charm.
On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 03:12 PM, Andrew Salamon wrote:> I did the same thing before installing OS X over top of OS X PB, but IMy guess (without trying it): Probably not.
> still have an unanswered question.
> Has anyone tried to do a restore? If I wipe my hard drive and restore
> from backup will I be able to boot into
> OS X?
>
Things to check are: Does the Classic version of Retrospect save and
restore the posix permissions? What about file owner/group? For extra
credit, what about saving and restoring setuid executables?
I'd be amazed if it did this....
Brian
<brianhill...> http://personalpages.tds.net/~brian_hill
___________________________________________________________
"Why? I came into this game for adventure - go anywhere, travel
light, get in, get out, wherever there's trouble, a man alone.
Now they've got the whole country sectioned off and you can't
move without a form. I'm the last of a breed."
-- Archibald "Harry" Tuttle, Rogue HVAC Repairman
___________________________________________________________ -
On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 10:23 , Brian Hill wrote:> Things to check are: Does the Classic version of Retrospect save and
> restore the posix permissions? What about file owner/group? For extra
> credit, what about saving and restoring setuid executables?
Does it even store file names > 31 characters and files > 2GB?
andy
--
Discussion forthcoming. -
--On fredag 13 april 2001 00:36 +0200 Andreas Monitzer <a...>
wrote:> On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 10:23 , Brian Hill wrote:
>
>> Things to check are: Does the Classic version of Retrospect save and
>> restore the posix permissions? What about file owner/group? For extra
>> credit, what about saving and restoring setuid executables?
>
> Does it even store file names > 31 characters and files > 2GB?
Nope. Tried this, and of course (as you'd expect), the filenames get
shortened (in the same way that filenames from a Mac OS X Server 1.2 server
get shortened when served over AFP; the name is truncated and a 4 digit hex
code is appended).
Of course, with the Retrospect Client for Mac OS X supposedly shipping in
beta form tomorrow, this will probably change; the downside is that you'd
have to run a Retrospect Server in order to do a backup, if they're really
only releasing the Client. Guess we'll all find out tomorrow, hmm?
(I wonder if you'll be able to run Retrospect from within Classic and have
it talk to the Retrospect Client for OS X on the same machine... that'd be
a reasonable, if ugly, workaround until they release the full Retrospect
for OS X)
-Dan
------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel M. Zimmerman TFF Enterprises
M/S 256-80 - Caltech http://www.tffenterprises.com/
Pasadena, California 91125 USA <dmz...> -
On vendredi, avril 13, 2001, at 12:47 , Daniel M. Zimmerman wrote:> Of course, with the Retrospect Client for Mac OS X supposedly shipping
> in beta form tomorrow, this will probably change; the downside is that
> you'd have to run a Retrospect Server in order to do a backup, if
> they're really only releasing the Client. Guess we'll all find out
> tomorrow, hmm?
Just tested it with a Retrospect Server on a Win...s machine (a solution
which is working perfectly well when developping on MacOS 9).
The MacOS X client is seen as a Windows client by the server (why
not ?). The Server is not able to track the volumes on MacOS X nor the
folder. So I gave up and will use AppleShareIP (whose support by MacOS X
Finder is quite buggy in the current release) with a basic file copy. -
>
> It whould be nice if this patch could be incorporated into the regular tar/gnutar. Well, some day ...
>
Hey, there's an idea l-)
It could also store (at option) the extra data like Apple does on UFS volumes. I dunno about you, but this would make my life a tad easier.
Getting hfstar to work on Darwin with UFS volumes is my shortter term goal.
