NSSpellChecker (foundation) broken for custom NSSpellServer servers

  • Hello,

    I'm one of the supporters of custom NSSpellServer effort called
    SpellCheck that does provide spell support for Eastern Europe
    languages missing in Leopard built-in spell checker (We got Polish
    interface but no Polish spell checker). SpellCheck uses Cocoa's
    NSSpellServer interface, everything is working fine except there's
    apparently a bug inside Foundation.framework regarding calls to proper
    Spell Servers (via Mach ports).

    It seems Foundation is often stubbornly calling wrong spell server.

    AppleSpell.service NSSpellServer is registered with
    registerLanguage:byVendor: for "en", "fr" .. etc. languages and
    "Apple" vendor.
    CheckSpell.service NSSpellServer is registered for exclusively other
    languages as "pl", "cs", "lt", "lv", "sk" ... with "Apple" vendor
    (also I checked changing to "Check" vendor, same problem).

    So it often happens that Foundation calls CheckSpell.service for "en"
    and vice-versa AppleSpell.service for "pl"! This happens by instance
    in Mail.app, when I first use English spell checking via
    AppleSpell.service, and switch to Polish (pl) via CheckSpell.service
    for my next mail, Foundation (NSSpellChecker) is getting crazy, and
    asking AppleSpell for "pl", which results in totally wrong (empty)
    response. In order to get proper "pl" via CheckSpell.service I need to
    restart Mail.app, but then when I want to switch to English, ..... yes
    again I need to restart.

    This thing is really bothering me much in OSX, I was writing to
    Apple's feedback regarding OSX and Mail.app about this issue once
    there was just 10.5.0 release, since then nothing has changed, this
    bug is still there unfixed.

    Maybe someone from Apple OSX devs is reading this list, and could take
    a peek into this problem?
    I'm aware there's a bug tracker for paid & registered Apple
    developers, where I could report those problems, but since I'm not one
    of them I have no access there.

    Thanks,
    --
    Adam Strzelecki | nanoant.com

    P.S. Also very very annoying thing about Cocoa is that changing spell
    language with ⇧⌘; does not revalidate all words in NSTextView, but
    only current word under the cursor, so either I need to scroll trough
    whole document to have the text revalidated with new language or I
    need to press Next many many times in Spelling & Grammar window. I
    believe it would make life easier for double- or tripe- language
    writers under OSX so whole document gets automatically revalidated
    once I switch the language.
  • Don't want to hammer here too much, but I just want to have any
    feedback from Apple if this problem is known and if there's any chance
    to get it fixed.

    I've already send some more details to Douglas Davidson month ago that
    provides here great support I see, but after that I haven't got any
    more word from him, too bad.

    Maybe anyone else from Apple can have a look at this problem.

    Just imagine how annoying it is when you write mails in two languages,
    and you need to restart Mail.app every time you change the spell
    checker language. And this affects all user that use CheckSpell or
    CocoaSpell, which are Universe minus AppleSpell provided languages
    only speaking ppl.

    Below are details sent to Douglas:
    >> Get me a copy of your spellchecker and instructions for reproducing
    >> the problem (including system version and configuration
    >> information) and I will take a look at it.

    > or direct download link <A href="http://web.mac.com/heidi17/Heidikowa_witryna/CheckSpell_files/CheckSpell-1.3.dmg">http://web.mac.com/heidi17/Heidikowa_witryna/CheckSpell_files/CheckSpell-1.
    3.dmg

    >
    > (The author of this service (software) is in the CC. I got direct
    > contact with him as well. Please contact him if you need any
    > information regarding the source-code.)
    >
    > The installer will create /Library/Services/CheckSpell.service which
    > is spell server based on NSSpellServer Cocoa API.
    > Once it is installed you should see additional languages such as
    > Polski or Cestina. Let's try reproduce the bug with Polish<->English
    > switching.
    >
    > Try to open Mail.app and write new mail as below:
    >
    > -------------------------------------
    > Here below is some Polish sentence.
    > Tutaj u góry jest tekst po angielsku.
    > -------------------------------------
    >
    > 1st line should be valid only in English (AppleSpell), 2nd should be
    > valid only in Polish (CheckSpell).
    > Unfortunately when I start writing mail with English spelling,
    > switching to Polish doesn't really make 2nd line valid, I get
    > absolutely no response from Polish spell checker (probably
    > AppleSpell called with "pl" instead of CheckSpell)
    >
    > Then once the mail is saved and Mail.app restarted, it starts with
    > Polish, everything is fine with the spelling (Polish this time),
    > until switch back to English. Then CheckSpell is complaining that it
    > is getting called with "en" language which it wasn't registered for
    > (AppleSpell should be called).
    >
    > IMPORTANT CLUE: When I do: "killall AppleSpell CheckSpell" prior
    > running Mail.app, switching spelling languages works somehow fine!
    > So the problem appears when AppleSpell & CheckSpell service
    > processes are already running in the system. So the problem may not
    > appear 1st time when you run Mail.app after installation of
    > CheckSpell, please rerun it once both spelling service processes are
    > running.
    >
    > So the diagnosis is that once single application using
    > Foundation.framework contacts the NSSpellServer that is already
    > running, it will always use THIS one regardless of selected language
    > and other NSSpellServer that may be proper.
    >
    > Just as a reminder, I'd like to ask you (Apple) for focusing also
    > the problem of revalidation of spelling on language change.
    > Regardless of the bugs above, there is also slight annoyance with
    > NSTextView based GUIs such as Mail.app that everytime you change the
    > language in Spelling & Gramma window and you got Check spelling as
    > you type ON the spelling is not revalidated with current language,
    > you need to click Next many many times, or scroll your cursor trough
    > whole document in order to make the spelling underline incorrect
    > words in current language.
    > This is also the case when you open the saved mail in Mail.app,
    > incorrect words are not underlined on open.

    > Opps forgot my configuration:
    >
    > MacBookPro3,1 2.2GHz 2GB RAM, 250GB HD, MBP31.0070.B07
    >
    > Mac OSX 10.5.4 w/latest security update, preferred language set to
    > Polish, but I've also checked problem with English.
    >
    > Problem appears since first time I've installed CheckSpell around
    > Feb 2008 @ 10.5.2.
    >
    > I got couple of friends that also has this problem with spell
    > checker on other Mac computers.

    Regards,
    --
    Adam Strzelecki
  • 2008/9/8 Adam Strzelecki <ono...>:
    > Don't want to hammer here too much, but I just want to have any feedback
    > from Apple if this problem is known and if there's any chance to get it
    > fixed.

    If you want a response from Apple, file a bug report at
    bugreport.apple.com.  Otherwise, there's no guarantee anyone from
    Apple will even see your message.

    --Kyle Sluder
  • > If you want a response from Apple, file a bug report at
    > bugreport.apple.com.  Otherwise, there's no guarantee anyone from
    > Apple will even see your message.

    Okay, thanks. For a first time I thought that bugreport.apple.com
    requires paid ADC subscription, which I has not. But it worked with my
    ADC account great.
    Also I just felt that this list may be good place to report this
    problem as it isn't really any product bug, but Foundation.framework
    bug.

    Anyway please follow the discussion at 6206237: https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa/51/wo/L6qK9Epzw
    AhafH2fLAhk7g/7.57.20.0.3

      now.

    Thanks,
    --
    Adam Strzelecki
  • Another month goes by and there is absolutely no response from the
    Apple about the problem, even negative one like "there's no problem"
    or "get lost". I don't know what I do wrong that I am being totally
    ignored by the company I let to earn few thousands bucks.

    I dared to write an article and cry a bit there about NSSpellServer
    problem:
    http://www.nanoant.com/apple/nsspellserver-guilty-of-tearing-my-hair-out

    Regards,
    --
    Adam Strzelecki (Dissapointed OSX user)
  • On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:58 PM, Adam Strzelecki wrote:

    > Another month goes by and there is absolutely no response from the
    > Apple about the problem, even negative one like "there's no problem"
    > or "get lost". I don't know what I do wrong that I am being totally
    > ignored by the company I let to earn few thousands bucks.

    If you require direct developer technical support from Apple, then you
    have to pay for an ADC premier or select membership and file a DTS
    incident. Otherwise, you are on your own. Everyone who posts here is
    just volunteering, including Apple employees.

    Nick Zitzmann
    <http://www.chronosnet.com/>
  • Hello,

    Being aware that few of Apple employees are available on this lists, I
    want to express that I am really sick of Apple's ignorance to the
    problem that I have very well described. Probably if I was a regular
    user using iTunes or Pages once for I while I wouldn't care, but I am
    a professional registered iPhone developer and systems architect
    working now on Mac and being REALLY disappointed that you (Apple)
    simply don't care about us, your clients and the developers for your
    systems.

    I have made some time ago once article about this: http://www.nanoant.com/apple/nsspellserver-guilty-of-tearing-my-hair-out

    This is very weird situation that we have Polish Leopard, Polish
    iWork'09 but no built-in spell checked for our native language, and
    all 3rd party spell checkers are suffering of the bug of
    Foundation.framework.

    I'm glad someone's took a decision to include Polish language into
    Leopard and iWork to satisfy users coming from this 40 million
    inhabitants country, but for God's sake why don't you finally fix the
    problem with (lack of) spell checking.

    As all my product-feedback mails are consequently ignored this is the
    last place I seek for help.

    Apple, please re-read the very first error report here, bugfixing it
    will take you just FEW minutes I believe, because the problem is well
    described.

    > If you require direct developer technical support from Apple, then
    > you have to pay for an ADC premier or select membership and file a
    > DTS incident. Otherwise, you are on your own. Everyone who posts
    > here is just volunteering, including Apple employees.

    Nick, I don't need support for development (anyway I am more iPhone
    developer and web developer right now than Mac OS) I just want a BUG
    that is hitting some of the users to be fixed. I paid for the product
    and I want it to work as expected and described in its documentation
    (Foundation.framework docs!).

    Regards,
    --
    Adam Strzelecki
  • First off, I tried to read the linked web page, but it appears your style
    sheet is causing the left margin to be displayed a couple of words or so to
    the left of the visible browser window on Safari and Camino, so it's almost
    impossible to read.

    Second, you should submit a bug by way of bugreporter.apple.com rather than
    by using a product feedback e-mail.  This ensures your issue goes to the
    people responsible for fixing the bug rather than to marketing people (I'm
    just guessing that's what happens to product feedback e-mail).

    Third, I recall while working on Polish internationalization (programming
    side) issues with a product six years ago that Apple, at that time, relied
    greatly on a particular company in Poland to handle a lot of things
    independently of them.  I'm not sure about the whole reporting structure or
    responsibilities, but it seemed to me that it was more hands-off than I
    would've expected, but I could've been wrong and things may have changed
    since then.  Have you also checked out www.apple.com.pl to see if some extra
    contact info might be available?  My Polish is not so dobry, so I can't
    point out anything in particular.

    On 01/15/2009 4:20 PM, "Adam Strzelecki" <ono...> wrote:

    > Hello,
    >
    > Being aware that few of Apple employees are available on this lists, I
    > want to express that I am really sick of Apple's ignorance to the
    > problem that I have very well described. Probably if I was a regular
    > user using iTunes or Pages once for I while I wouldn't care, but I am
    > a professional registered iPhone developer and systems architect
    > working now on Mac and being REALLY disappointed that you (Apple)
    > simply don't care about us, your clients and the developers for your
    > systems.
    >
    > I have made some time ago once article about this:
    > http://www.nanoant.com/apple/nsspellserver-guilty-of-tearing-my-hair-out
    >
    > This is very weird situation that we have Polish Leopard, Polish
    > iWork'09 but no built-in spell checked for our native language, and
    > all 3rd party spell checkers are suffering of the bug of
    > Foundation.framework.
    >
    > I'm glad someone's took a decision to include Polish language into
    > Leopard and iWork to satisfy users coming from this 40 million
    > inhabitants country, but for God's sake why don't you finally fix the
    > problem with (lack of) spell checking.
    >
    > As all my product-feedback mails are consequently ignored this is the
    > last place I seek for help.
    >
    > Apple, please re-read the very first error report here, bugfixing it
    > will take you just FEW minutes I believe, because the problem is well
    > described.
    >
    >> If you require direct developer technical support from Apple, then
    >> you have to pay for an ADC premier or select membership and file a
    >> DTS incident. Otherwise, you are on your own. Everyone who posts
    >> here is just volunteering, including Apple employees.
    >
    > Nick, I don't need support for development (anyway I am more iPhone
    > developer and web developer right now than Mac OS) I just want a BUG
    > that is hitting some of the users to be fixed. I paid for the product
    > and I want it to work as expected and described in its documentation
    > (Foundation.framework docs!).
    >
    > Regards,
  • Gary,

    First of all, thank you for your response. You will find my replies
    below.
    I just want to stress the fact that this problem is not particular for
    Polish users but ALL users using 3rd party Spell Checkers in Mac OS X,
    so all CocoaSpell users, so Universe minus countries that have their
    language in Apple's spell checker.

    > First off, I tried to read the linked web page, but it appears your
    > style
    > sheet is causing the left margin to be displayed a couple of words
    > or so to
    > the left of the visible browser window on Safari and Camino, so it's
    > almost
    > impossible to read.

    That's too bad, my site indeed requires minimum of 1024px screen
    (browser window) width :(

    > Second, you should submit a bug by way of bugreporter.apple.com
    > rather than
    > by using a product feedback e-mail.  This ensures your issue goes to
    > the
    > people responsible for fixing the bug rather than to marketing
    > people (I'm
    > just guessing that's what happens to product feedback e-mail).

    Yes I already did that. The bug 6206237 hangs there since Sep 9th. No
    reply, no status change, nothing.
    Also there's another bug of mine 6256562 about Java update that broke
    font rendering with Quartz renderer... no update too.

    > Third, I recall while working on Polish internationalization
    > (programming
    > side) issues with a product six years ago that Apple, at that time,
    > relied
    > greatly on a particular company in Poland to handle a lot of things
    > independently of them.

    Yes you probably recall company called "SAD", that was issuing Polish
    addons like keyboard layouts for old Mac OS X. Now they created new
    company iSource that is Value Added Distributor in Poland and the old
    one "SAD" is just taking care about service of the hardware. AFAIK
    they are just responsible for sales + Polish support line.

    Since Polish locale is in Leopard and iWork everything regarding
    Polish localization is handled AFAIK in Cupertino, or Ireland. I don't
    know exactly where's the person responsible for preparing the
    localization, but I am pretty sure that not in Poland.

    > I'm not sure about the whole reporting structure or
    > responsibilities, but it seemed to me that it was more hands-off
    > than I
    > would've expected, but I could've been wrong and things may have
    > changed
    > since then.  Have you also checked out www.apple.com.pl to see if
    > some extra
    > contact info might be available?  My Polish is not so dobry, so I
    > can't
    > point out anything in particular.

    AFAIK Polish VAD is aware of this problem (they use Macs and 3rd party
    spell checker too, coz they have no choice). But they are no more but
    just the salesmen.

    Anyway I don't ask Apple to put Polish spell checking into the Mac OS
    X, but fix problem that is related to any 3rd party spell checker that
    may be Russian, Czech... whoever using CocoaSpell or CheckSpell and
    which is directly in the Foundation.framework I believe that is
    choosing wrong MacPort (wrong SpellServer) upon Client-Server
    comunication, so Polish VAD has nothing to do with that.

    Regards,
    --
    Adam Strzelecki
  • Hello,

    Den 16. jan. 2009 kl. 12.40 skrev Adam Strzelecki:

    > Gary,
    >
    > First of all, thank you for your response. You will find my replies
    > below.
    > I just want to stress the fact that this problem is not particular
    > for Polish users but ALL users using 3rd party Spell Checkers in Mac
    > OS X, so all CocoaSpell users, so Universe minus countries that have
    > their language in Apple's spell checker.

    Confirmed.

    I have seen the same problem as Adam, but never taken the time to
    investigate it. Thanks for the effort, Adam!

    Fixing this bug is highly needed, and has been for a long time. I have
    at the moment 4 different CocoaSpell servers installed:

    - CocoAspell (Aspell)
    - MySpellX (Myspell)
    - OpenXSpell (Hunspell)
    - Soikko (Finnish only)

    in addition to the Apple spellers. Not being able to rely on these
    spellers is very irritating, even more so as I'm developing spell
    checkers (see http://www.divvun.no/), and need to switch languages
    often.

    I hope Apple is listening, and will fix this bug rather soon, or at
    latest in Snow Leopard.

    Best regards,
    Sjur N. Moshagen

    PS. I added a comment to your blog. DS.
  • Then the best thing for you and anyone else experiencing the problem to do
    is to write a bug and reference Adam's bug(s).  I'm not privy to such
    prioritizations, but Apple does take greater stock in bugs when they are
    reported by more than one person.  Now, I don't think they'd respond faster
    if the same person reported the same thing MULTIPLE times, but you never
    know. ;-)

    You're not alone when it comes to having a pet bug that is keeping you from
    progressing, but that's the way things work, and the only way to expedite
    something is with a tech support incident (bribe), which does cost money
    because Apple has to pay their people to divert from other projects to look
    at your issue immediately rather than upon their predetermined schedule.

    As for Adam's web site (off-topic, but just to complete my points on the
    thread), I see nothing on the web page that requires you to shift the
    left-most content off the left side of a less-than-1024px-wide browser so
    the left side of the page is unavailable; many web sites work quite well
    with less than their desired width, and besides, with the greater use of
    device independence, an absolute pixel width requirement of 1024 may get you
    into trouble.

    On 01/16/2009 4:42 AM, "Sjur Moshagen" <sjurnm...> wrote:

    > Hello,
    >
    > Den 16. jan. 2009 kl. 12.40 skrev Adam Strzelecki:
    >
    >> Gary,
    >>
    >> First of all, thank you for your response. You will find my replies
    >> below.
    >> I just want to stress the fact that this problem is not particular
    >> for Polish users but ALL users using 3rd party Spell Checkers in Mac
    >> OS X, so all CocoaSpell users, so Universe minus countries that have
    >> their language in Apple's spell checker.
    >
    > Confirmed.
    >
    > I have seen the same problem as Adam, but never taken the time to
    > investigate it. Thanks for the effort, Adam!
    >
    > Fixing this bug is highly needed, and has been for a long time. I have
    > at the moment 4 different CocoaSpell servers installed:
    >
    > - CocoAspell (Aspell)
    > - MySpellX (Myspell)
    > - OpenXSpell (Hunspell)
    > - Soikko (Finnish only)
    >
    > in addition to the Apple spellers. Not being able to rely on these
    > spellers is very irritating, even more so as I'm developing spell
    > checkers (see http://www.divvun.no/), and need to switch languages
    > often.
    >
    > I hope Apple is listening, and will fix this bug rather soon, or at
    > latest in Snow Leopard.
    >
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Sjur N. Moshagen
    >
    > PS. I added a comment to your blog. DS.
    >
  • FYI this bug has been finally fixed in 10.5.7.

    I need to pay honor to Apple for writing me to check & verify the
    bugfix, and to let many of us to switch spell checker language without
    glitches.
    This really makes my day! Thanks for everyone who followed this thread
    and sent reports to Apple's bugtracker as well.

    Cheers,
    --
    Adam Strzelecki
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