"backporting" nibs question / Rhapsody license anyone?

  • Hi everybody,

    I got hold of the source code of an ancient OpenStep application for
    Rhapsody DR1/DR2 and Mac OS X Server (that little known version of
    Mac OS X that came without Carbon and predates the Public Beta).

    While I got the code itself to compile without relatively few tweaks
    and almost without warnings on OPENSTEP 4.2 (this is the closest to
    Rhapsody I could get hold of), I now have the problems that the nibs
    that came with the code are to "new".
    I get an Exception when loading the nibs (regardless if during
    application launch or trying to open the nibs with IB:
    <NSArchiverArchiveInconsistency> *** file inconsistency: read '@',
    expecting 'ii'.
    I am, however, able to open those nibs with a recent version of IB
    (version 2.5.3 of Mac OS X 10.4), although there seem to be some
    minor troubles with it, IB says there are some unconnected outlets.

    - So does anyone on this list know of a way to "backport" nibs to an
    earlier version (besides recreating all the nibs from scratch)?

    - Or does someone here still own a copy/license of either Rhapsody
    DR1/DR2 or that ancient Mac OS X Server (without any "10" in it)
    complete with the matching dev tools and wants to sell that copy/
    license to me? Or maybe somebody knows of a tiny countryside computer
    shack quite behind the times somewhere far off that still offers it?
    That would be really great.

    regards,

    Lars
  • On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
    > - So does anyone on this list know of a way to "backport" nibs to an
    > earlier version (besides recreating all the nibs from scratch)?

    Your problem statement doesn't make sense.  The NIBs don't need to be
    backported.  The problem is that the NIBs contain constructs that no
    longer unarchive correctly -- most likely because the code used to
    unarchive the ancient version of the NIBs compatibility has been
    removed.

    Given that the NIB does actually open, your choices are two fold.

    The shortest, but most manual labor way, would be to open the NIBs in
    IB, fix up the broken connections, then save it.  That should result
    in a working NIB, with a bit of debugging.

    The second way is slightly more indirect.

    You'll need to find a copy of Rhapsody DR1 or DR2, Mac OS X Public
    Beta, and -- most likely -- Mac OS X 10.1 or so.  You can then open
    the NIB file in each version, save it in that version, and then move
    on to the next OS Release.  Rinse.  Repeat.  This generally results in
    a working NIB on the modern system.

    Unless, of course, the code involves custom IB palettes.  If it does,
    you are going to need to either port those across the systems, making
    the palette available on each interim system, or figure out a way to
    eliminate the palettes altogether on the most ancient OS you can work
    with.

    And you might have to write a palette of your own to adjust the NIB
    along the way.  Fortunately, IB has long had a powerful API for
    adjusting the NIB's object graph as it is loaded.  I used it to fix a
    number of issues along a similar path when moving a codebase from NS
    3.3 to Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar).

    Oh -- one other thing -- with a bit of cajoling, I found it possible
    to run all the various flavors of Mac OS X and OpenStep under Virtual
    PC.  Maybe the same thing will be possible with the modern "emulators".

    Have fun,
    b.bum
  • I read the original question to mean that Lars was trying to get the
    NIB's from Rhapsody to run on Open Step. If so, I don't know of anyway
    to do this. It's largely the reason we use NSKeyedArchiver on Mac OS X
    instead of NSArchiver. Generally, we're pretty good about reading old
    binary formatted archives with newer code.

    Jon Hess

    On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:55 PM, Bill Bumgarner wrote:

    > On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
    >> - So does anyone on this list know of a way to "backport" nibs to
    >> an earlier version (besides recreating all the nibs from scratch)?
    >
    > Your problem statement doesn't make sense.  The NIBs don't need to
    > be backported.  The problem is that the NIBs contain constructs that
    > no longer unarchive correctly -- most likely because the code used
    > to unarchive the ancient version of the NIBs compatibility has been
    > removed.
    >
    > Given that the NIB does actually open, your choices are two fold.
    >
    > The shortest, but most manual labor way, would be to open the NIBs
    > in IB, fix up the broken connections, then save it.  That should
    > result in a working NIB, with a bit of debugging.
    >
    > The second way is slightly more indirect.
    >
    > You'll need to find a copy of Rhapsody DR1 or DR2, Mac OS X Public
    > Beta, and -- most likely -- Mac OS X 10.1 or so.  You can then open
    > the NIB file in each version, save it in that version, and then move
    > on to the next OS Release.  Rinse.  Repeat.  This generally results
    > in a working NIB on the modern system.
    >
    > Unless, of course, the code involves custom IB palettes.  If it
    > does, you are going to need to either port those across the systems,
    > making the palette available on each interim system, or figure out a
    > way to eliminate the palettes altogether on the most ancient OS you
    > can work with.
    >
    > And you might have to write a palette of your own to adjust the NIB
    > along the way.  Fortunately, IB has long had a powerful API for
    > adjusting the NIB's object graph as it is loaded.  I used it to fix
    > a number of issues along a similar path when moving a codebase from
    > NS 3.3 to Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar).
    >
    > Oh -- one other thing -- with a bit of cajoling, I found it possible
    > to run all the various flavors of Mac OS X and OpenStep under
    > Virtual PC.  Maybe the same thing will be possible with the modern
    > "emulators".
    >
    > Have fun,
    > b.bum
  • Am 04.08.2008 um 23:55 schrieb Bill Bumgarner:

    > On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
    >> - So does anyone on this list know of a way to "backport" nibs to
    >> an earlier version (besides recreating all the nibs from scratch)?
    >
    > Your problem statement doesn't make sense.  The NIBs don't need to
    > be backported.

    Well, I indeed want to backport it. I forgot to mention that the code
    I got depends on SoundKit - and this is the reason I want at first
    take a step back in time - to predecessor OPENSTEP 4.2, which I got
    from a colleague and then port it slowly over to MusicKit (http://
    musickit.sourceforge.net/) which has some similarities to SoundKit
    and later eventually to something more modern. My aim is also to keep
    that application compatible to GNUstep so maybe I don't ditch the
    MusicKit dependency to soon.

    > The problem is that the NIBs contain constructs that no longer
    > unarchive correctly -- most likely because the code used to
    > unarchive the ancient version of the NIBs compatibility has been
    > removed.
    >
    > Given that the NIB does actually open, your choices are two fold.
    >
    > The shortest, but most manual labor way, would be to open the NIBs
    > in IB, fix up the broken connections, then save it.  That should
    > result in a working NIB, with a bit of debugging.
    >
    > The second way is slightly more indirect.
    >
    > You'll need to find a copy of Rhapsody DR1 or DR2, Mac OS X Public
    > Beta,

    I still have the public beta lying around at my shelf, I'd just need
    to install it on my PowerBook Pismo. But my memories fail me at the
    availability of the dev tools on the Public Beta CD-ROM. Were those
    on it or were the dev tools a separate download then?
    And: wasn't SoundKit already gone by that time?

    > and -- most likely -- Mac OS X 10.1 or so.  You can then open the
    > NIB file in each version, save it in that version, and then move on
    > to the next OS Release.  Rinse.  Repeat.  This generally results in
    > a working NIB on the modern system.
    >
    > Unless, of course, the code involves custom IB palettes.

    I don't think so.

    > If it does, you are going to need to either port those across the
    > systems, making the palette available on each interim system, or
    > figure out a way to eliminate the palettes altogether on the most
    > ancient OS you can work with.
    >
    > And you might have to write a palette of your own to adjust the NIB
    > along the way.  Fortunately, IB has long had a powerful API for
    > adjusting the NIB's object graph as it is loaded.  I used it to fix
    > a number of issues along a similar path when moving a codebase from
    > NS 3.3 to Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar).
    >
    > Oh -- one other thing -- with a bit of cajoling, I found it
    > possible to run all the various flavors of Mac OS X and OpenStep
    > under Virtual PC.  Maybe the same thing will be possible with the
    > modern "emulators".
    >
    > Have fun,
    > b.bum_______________________________________________

    Thanks for your help,

    Lars
  • On Aug 4, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
    > Am 04.08.2008 um 23:55 schrieb Bill Bumgarner:
    >> On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
    >>> - So does anyone on this list know of a way to "backport" nibs to
    >>> an earlier version (besides recreating all the nibs from scratch)?
    >>
    >> Your problem statement doesn't make sense.  The NIBs don't need to
    >> be backported.
    >
    > Well, I indeed want to backport it. I forgot to mention that the
    > code I got depends on SoundKit - and this is the reason I want at
    > first take a step back in time - to predecessor OPENSTEP 4.2, which
    > I got from a colleague and then port it slowly over to MusicKit (http://musickit.sourceforge.net/
    > ) which has some similarities to SoundKit and later eventually to
    > something more modern. My aim is also to keep that application
    > compatible to GNUstep so maybe I don't ditch the MusicKit dependency
    > to soon.

    Bahh.. sorry -- I misread the original post and, as Jon indicated,
    backporting the NIBs from a later version to an earlier version will
    be exceedingly difficult.

    b.bum
  • Hi,

    because i'm currently facing a comparable situation - i'd like to
    migrate old NeXT style mails and mailboxes and also some old NeXTstep
    based applications for my personal use - i'm really interested in any
    possible solutions.

    I still have access to some of the early Rhapsody CDs, but i lack Mac
    OS releases prior to 10.4.9 (switched lately to Mac). Is there any
    document describing which releases can be obtained from Apple and wich
    of them are really required for such a migration?

    Is there any chance to install those releases on a Parallels or VMware
    virtual machine ?

    Regards,

    Ralf Edmund Stranzenbach
    <macbook...>

    Am 05.08.2008 um 05:40 schrieb Bill Bumgarner:

    > On Aug 4, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
    >> Am 04.08.2008 um 23:55 schrieb Bill Bumgarner:
    >>> On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
    >>>> - So does anyone on this list know of a way to "backport" nibs to
    >>>> an earlier version (besides recreating all the nibs from scratch)?
    >>>
    >>> Your problem statement doesn't make sense.  The NIBs don't need to
    >>> be backported.
    >>
    >> Well, I indeed want to backport it. I forgot to mention that the
    >> code I got depends on SoundKit - and this is the reason I want at
    >> first take a step back in time - to predecessor OPENSTEP 4.2, which
    >> I got from a colleague and then port it slowly over to MusicKit (http://musickit.sourceforge.net/
    >> ) which has some similarities to SoundKit and later eventually to
    >> something more modern. My aim is also to keep that application
    >> compatible to GNUstep so maybe I don't ditch the MusicKit
    >> dependency to soon.
    >
    > Bahh.. sorry -- I misread the original post and, as Jon indicated,
    > backporting the NIBs from a later version to an earlier version will
    > be exceedingly difficult.
    >
    > b.bum
  • On Aug 6, 2008, at 12:19 AM, Ralf Edmund Stranzenbach wrote:
    > because i'm currently facing a comparable situation - i'd like to
    > migrate old NeXT style mails and mailboxes and also some old
    > NeXTstep based applications for my personal use - i'm really
    > interested in any possible solutions.

    You'll also likely want to use the TOPS scripts to migrate from
    NeXTSTEP 3.3 and prior APIs to the modern APIS.  In particular, it
    isn't hard to create a TOPS script to migrate between Display
    PostScript and NSBezier*.  That was the bulk of the migration
    required beyond the default set of NX* -> NS* migration (pre-
    Foundation to post-Foundation).  Though, there are a number of
    functional APIs that could also be migrated.

    > I still have access to some of the early Rhapsody CDs, but i lack
    > Mac OS releases prior to 10.4.9 (switched lately to Mac). Is there
    > any document describing which releases can be obtained from Apple
    > and wich of them are really required for such a migration?

    Small Dog and various other resellers typically have older versions of
    Mac OS X (and Macintosh hardware) available at reasonable prices.  I
    would check with said source.

    > Is there any chance to install those releases on a Parallels or
    > VMware virtual machine ?

    Mac OS X, itself, has never supported a VM style installation, as far
    as I know.  Thus, you might be out of luck on that front.

    b.bum
  • Le 6 août 08 à 09:50, Bill Bumgarner a écrit :

    > On Aug 6, 2008, at 12:19 AM, Ralf Edmund Stranzenbach wrote:
    >> because i'm currently facing a comparable situation - i'd like to
    >> migrate old NeXT style mails and mailboxes and also some old
    >> NeXTstep based applications for my personal use - i'm really
    >> interested in any possible solutions.
    >
    > You'll also likely want to use the TOPS scripts to migrate from
    > NeXTSTEP 3.3 and prior APIs to the modern APIS.  In particular, it
    > isn't hard to create a TOPS script to migrate between Display
    > PostScript and NSBezier*.  That was the bulk of the migration
    > required beyond the default set of NX* -> NS* migration (pre-
    > Foundation to post-Foundation).  Though, there are a number of
    > functional APIs that could also be migrated.
    >
    >> I still have access to some of the early Rhapsody CDs, but i lack
    >> Mac OS releases prior to 10.4.9 (switched lately to Mac). Is there
    >> any document describing which releases can be obtained from Apple
    >> and wich of them are really required for such a migration?
    >
    > Small Dog and various other resellers typically have older versions
    > of Mac OS X (and Macintosh hardware) available at reasonable
    > prices.  I would check with said source.
    >
    >> Is there any chance to install those releases on a Parallels or
    >> VMware virtual machine ?
    >
    > Mac OS X, itself, has never supported a VM style installation, as
    > far as I know.  Thus, you might be out of luck on that front.
    >
    > b.bum

    Especially if you considere that all Mac OS X versions prior to 10.4.x
    are PPC only.
  • On Aug 6, 2008, at 1:02 AM, Jean-Daniel Dupas wrote:
    > Especially if you considere that all Mac OS X versions prior to
    > 10.4.x are PPC only.

    Only back to Mac OS X 10.0.  Prior versions ran on an assortment of
    different platforms, including i386, m68k, PA RISC, and Sparc (in the
    shipping versions, anyway -- there were others).

    b.bum
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