[Moderator] Leopard Discussion Embargo Lifted at 6PM Pacific Time on Friday

  • The subject really says it all.

    As of 6PM Pacific time discussion of Leopard Cocoa API is allowed on
    the list.

    I'll post a note at that time.  In the interim, please continue to
    respect the NDA.

    Thanks

    Scott
  • Scott Anguish wrote:
    > The subject really says it all.
    >
    > As of 6PM Pacific time discussion of Leopard Cocoa API is allowed on the
    > list.
    >
    > I'll post a note at that time.  In the interim, please continue to
    > respect the NDA.

    I'm a little curious about this - according to information from Apple, I'll
    be able to purchase Leopard tomorrow (Friday) at 6PM EDT. That's 3 hours
    earlier. Is the store "World Premiere" information incorrect, or is the
    embargo still in force while east-coasters have legitimate access to Leopard?

    http://www.apple.com/retail/rockinghampark/week/20071021.html

    Cheers,
    Chris
  • On Oct 25, 2007, at 5:43 PM, Chris Woods wrote:

    > I'm a little curious about this

    As am I. When Tiger was released, the embargo was lifted as soon as
    the software was available in Japan...

    Nick Zitzmann
    <http://www.chronosnet.com/>
  • We got a date and time from the moderator lets just leave it at that
    and not waste list bandwidth (or the moderators time) splitting hairs
    over a handful of hours.

    -Shawn
  • What NDA applies to the final 10.5 GM? If you acquired the Leopard GM
    from a manner other than ADC, you are not under any NDA. And,
    well..., it's impossible for anyone to have acquired the GM via ADC.
    Therefore anyone asking questions about it would not be under NDA.

    10.5 is shipping now (and has been since yesterday) to consumers.
    Since yesterday, we've had many, many customers emailing us saying
    they just bought 10.5 from the store and installed it. (We have
    artificial blocks that prevent our software from running on 10.5).

    Hell, the NDA itself says it's not valid as soon as the information
    becomes public. And if I can go to a store and buy 10.5 off the
    shelf, that's public.

    The members of the following group have 10.5 GM:

    Pirates.
    Press.
    Consumers.

    The following groups do not:

    Developers.

    Unless they are a member of the above listed groups.

    Ack, at 10/25/07, Scott Anguish said:

    > In the interim, please continue to respect the NDA.

    --

    Sincerely,
    Rosyna Keller
    Technical Support/Carbon troll/Always needs a hug

    Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People

    It's either this, or imagining Phil Schiller in a thong.
  • On Oct 25, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Rosyna wrote:
    >

    > If you acquired the Leopard GM from a manner other than ADC, you are
    > not under any NDA. And, well..., it's impossible for anyone to have
    > acquired the GM via ADC. Therefore anyone asking questions about it
    > would not be under NDA

    WWDR has asked that Leopard discussion not take place here until 6pm
    PST Friday.

    If my wording (NDA) is what has caused confusion, I'm sorry.
  • On 26/10/2007, Scott Anguish <scott...> wrote:
    >
    > On Oct 25, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Rosyna wrote:
    >>
    >
    >> If you acquired the Leopard GM from a manner other than ADC, you are
    >> not under any NDA. And, well..., it's impossible for anyone to have
    >> acquired the GM via ADC. Therefore anyone asking questions about it
    >> would not be under NDA
    >
    > WWDR has asked that Leopard discussion not take place here until 6pm
    > PST Friday.

    That would then be an arbitrary restriction completely unrelated to
    the NDA. Please clarify your post.

    -- Finlay
  • on 2007-10-26 5:26 AM, Finlay Dobbie at <finlay.dobbie...> wrote:

    >> WWDR has asked that Leopard discussion not take place here until 6pm
    >> PST Friday.
    >
    > That would then be an arbitrary restriction completely unrelated to
    > the NDA. Please clarify your post.

    I normally refrain from participating in this sort of thread, but I can't
    resist this one. It's now about 7:00 AM here in Vermont, and the Apple Web
    site says, approximately, "0 days 11 hours" to go. I make that out to be
    6:00 PM Vermont time (also known in some circles as Eastern Daylight Time).

    --

    Bill Cheeseman - <bill...>
    Quechee Software, Quechee, Vermont, USA
    www.quecheesoftware.com

    PreFab Software - www.prefabsoftware.com
  • On Friday, October 26, 2007, at 04:27AM, "Finlay Dobbie" <finlay.dobbie...> wrote:
    > On 26/10/2007, Scott Anguish <scott...>  wrote:
    >>
    >> On Oct 25, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Rosyna wrote:
    >>>
    >>
    >>> If you acquired the Leopard GM from a manner other than ADC, you are
    >>> not under any NDA. And, well..., it's impossible for anyone to have
    >>> acquired the GM via ADC. Therefore anyone asking questions about it
    >>> would not be under NDA
    >>
    >> WWDR has asked that Leopard discussion not take place here until 6pm
    >> PST Friday.
    >
    > That would then be an arbitrary restriction completely unrelated to
    > the NDA. Please clarify your post.

    Can we please drop this thread?  It was made plain and simple to _not_ discuss Leopard on this list until 6 PM PST Fri (today).  That's the rule.  Please move on.

    Having said that, it is indeed still a bummer that no forum exists to discuss the pre-releases of the OS.  If you want to attempt to change this, please contact developer relations and mention how such a list would benefit you (I have done this myself a few times).

    --
    Rick Sharp
    Instant Interactive(tm)
  • On 26 Oct 2007, at 11:53, Bill Cheeseman wrote:

    > on 2007-10-26 5:26 AM, Finlay Dobbie at <finlay.dobbie...> wrote:
    >
    >>> WWDR has asked that Leopard discussion not take place here until 6pm
    >>> PST Friday.
    >>
    >> That would then be an arbitrary restriction completely unrelated to
    >> the NDA. Please clarify your post.
    >
    > I normally refrain from participating in this sort of thread, but I
    > can't
    > resist this one. It's now about 7:00 AM here in Vermont, and the
    > Apple Web
    > site says, approximately, "0 days 11 hours" to go. I make that out
    > to be
    > 6:00 PM Vermont time (also known in some circles as Eastern
    > Daylight Time).

    Furthermore, not only did a friend just called me on iChat from Tokyo
    saying she got hers from the Apple store in Shibuya, but copies
    arrived by post this morning with a couple of friends here in the
    UK.  My shiny new MacBook Pro with Leopard pre-installed hasn't
    shipped yet :-( but clearly the Cat is well and truly out of the Bag
    now, and the NDA clearly no longer applies.

    Nicko
  • Well, I got my copy here in Tokyo about 9:30 AM Friday, while west
    (and east) coast sleepyheads were getting ready to sack out.

    But if that's the embargo, that's it. Gotta do right by Apple.

    They're doing right by us.

    ScottB

    On Oct 26, 2007, at 08:51 , Nick Zitzmann wrote:

    >
    > On Oct 25, 2007, at 5:43 PM, Chris Woods wrote:
    >
    >> I'm a little curious about this
    >
    > As am I. When Tiger was released, the embargo was lifted as soon as
    > the software was available in Japan...
    >
    > Nick Zitzmann
    > <http://www.chronosnet.com/
    >
  • On 26.10.2007, at 13:39, Nicko van Someren wrote:

    > On 26 Oct 2007, at 11:53, Bill Cheeseman wrote:
    >
    >> on 2007-10-26 5:26 AM, Finlay Dobbie at <finlay.dobbie...>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> WWDR has asked that Leopard discussion not take place here until
    >>>> 6pm
    >>>> PST Friday.
    >>>
    >>> That would then be an arbitrary restriction completely unrelated to
    >>> the NDA. Please clarify your post.
    >>
    >> I normally refrain from participating in this sort of thread, but
    >> I can't
    >> resist this one. It's now about 7:00 AM here in Vermont, and the
    >> Apple Web
    >> site says, approximately, "0 days 11 hours" to go. I make that out
    >> to be
    >> 6:00 PM Vermont time (also known in some circles as Eastern
    >> Daylight Time).
    >
    > Furthermore, not only did a friend just called me on iChat from
    > Tokyo saying she got hers from the Apple store in Shibuya, but
    > copies arrived by post this morning with a couple of friends here
    > in the UK.  My shiny new MacBook Pro with Leopard pre-installed
    > hasn't shipped yet :-( but clearly the Cat is well and truly out of
    > the Bag now, and the NDA clearly no longer applies.
    >
    > Nicko

    Hi,
    I like these threads and find them very refreshing in the dark rainy
    days.

    Robert
  • On 26 Oct, 2007, at 07:44, Scott F Bayes wrote:

    > But if that's the embargo, that's it. Gotta do right by Apple.
    >
    > They're doing right by us.

    I guess that depends on perspective. Reviewers, consumers, and
    pirates have the GM. Developers don't. Right now, there's a guy
    sitting at a computer in Cupertino, staring at a disk image of the
    GM, yet it's not on the ADC site. David Pogue? He got his a few days
    ago.

    I can definitely understand the desire of the people here to discuss
    a product publicly available.

    --
    m-s
  • All that may be true, but sniping on this list and at Apple employees
    that don't control those decisions is just a waste of time and
    bandwidth. Submit feedback to the ADC via the official channels or
    send Steve an email. Direct your complaints to someone who has the
    power to enact change. Hint - it's not anyone on this mailing list.

    - Sam

    On Oct 26, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Michael Watson wrote:

    > On 26 Oct, 2007, at 07:44, Scott F Bayes wrote:
    >
    >> But if that's the embargo, that's it. Gotta do right by Apple.
    >>
    >> They're doing right by us.
    >
    > I guess that depends on perspective. Reviewers, consumers, and
    > pirates have the GM. Developers don't. Right now, there's a guy
    > sitting at a computer in Cupertino, staring at a disk image of the
    > GM, yet it's not on the ADC site. David Pogue? He got his a few
    > days ago.
    >
    > I can definitely understand the desire of the people here to
    > discuss a product publicly available.
    >
    >
    > --
    > m-s
  • I think that it's perfectly valid to object to arbitrary rules put in
    place by WWDR. I had a retail package on Leopard in my hands several
    hours ago. I fail to see any reason I should not be able to discuss it
    on this list.

    -- Finlay

    On 26/10/2007, Ricky Sharp <rsharp...> wrote:
    >
    > On Friday, October 26, 2007, at 04:27AM, "Finlay Dobbie"
    > <finlay.dobbie...> wrote:
    >> On 26/10/2007, Scott Anguish <scott...> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> On Oct 25, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Rosyna wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>> If you acquired the Leopard GM from a manner other than ADC, you are
    >>>> not under any NDA. And, well..., it's impossible for anyone to have
    >>>> acquired the GM via ADC. Therefore anyone asking questions about it
    >>>> would not be under NDA
    >>>
    >>> WWDR has asked that Leopard discussion not take place here until 6pm
    >>> PST Friday.
    >>
    >> That would then be an arbitrary restriction completely unrelated to
    >> the NDA. Please clarify your post.
    >
    > Can we please drop this thread?  It was made plain and simple to _not_
    > discuss Leopard on this list until 6 PM PST Fri (today).  That's the rule.
    > Please move on.
    >
    > Having said that, it is indeed still a bummer that no forum exists to
    > discuss the pre-releases of the OS.  If you want to attempt to change this,
    > please contact developer relations and mention how such a list would benefit
    > you (I have done this myself a few times).
    >
    > --
    > Rick Sharp
    > Instant Interactive(tm)
    >
  • This is an Apple-hosted list.  If Apple asks that you don't discuss
    something on the list until a particular time, then we should respect
    that.  If you want to point out that the rule is silly, go right
    ahead.  If you want to discuss Leopard before 6pm PST tonight, go to
    any of the multitude of non-Apple-hosted MacOS X developer web sites,
    blogs, forums, mailing lists, etc. available on the Internet and do so.

    On Oct 26, 2007, at 10:58 AM, Finlay Dobbie wrote:

    > I think that it's perfectly valid to object to arbitrary rules put in
    > place by WWDR. I had a retail package on Leopard in my hands several
    > hours ago. I fail to see any reason I should not be able to discuss it
    > on this list.
    >
    > -- Finlay
    >
    > On 26/10/2007, Ricky Sharp <rsharp...> wrote:
    >>
    >> On Friday, October 26, 2007, at 04:27AM, "Finlay Dobbie"
    >> <finlay.dobbie...> wrote:
    >>> On 26/10/2007, Scott Anguish <scott...> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> On Oct 25, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Rosyna wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> If you acquired the Leopard GM from a manner other than ADC,
    >>>>> you are
    >>>>> not under any NDA. And, well..., it's impossible for anyone to
    >>>>> have
    >>>>> acquired the GM via ADC. Therefore anyone asking questions
    >>>>> about it
    >>>>> would not be under NDA
    >>>>
    >>>> WWDR has asked that Leopard discussion not take place here until
    >>>> 6pm
    >>>> PST Friday.
    >>>
    >>> That would then be an arbitrary restriction completely unrelated to
    >>> the NDA. Please clarify your post.
    >>
    >> Can we please drop this thread?  It was made plain and simple to
    >> _not_
    >> discuss Leopard on this list until 6 PM PST Fri (today).  That's
    >> the rule.
    >> Please move on.
    >>
    >> Having said that, it is indeed still a bummer that no forum exists to
    >> discuss the pre-releases of the OS.  If you want to attempt to
    >> change this,
    >> please contact developer relations and mention how such a list
    >> would benefit
    >> you (I have done this myself a few times).
    >>
    >> --
    >> Rick Sharp
    >> Instant Interactive(tm)
    >>

  • On 26/10/2007, Sam Kimery <kimery...> wrote:
    >
    > All that may be true, but sniping on this list and at Apple employees
    > that don't control those decisions is just a waste of time and
    > bandwidth. Submit feedback to the ADC via the official channels or
    > send Steve an email. Direct your complaints to someone who has the
    > power to enact change. Hint - it's not anyone on this mailing list.

    I wasn't aware that ADC controlled the mailing lists. The fact that
    developers have not been seeded the GM yet is a separate (and arguably
    even more ridiculous) issue.

    -- Finlay
  • Can we please stop this thread?

    I can understand your frustration and confusion.  But the list isn't
    the place to discuss this. Discussing it here won't change anything.

    List policies (like this one) are not something that can be discussed
    here. If you want to provide feedback on this, please contact the
    admin address in the signature.

    Likewise, complaining about ADC seeding issues isn't appropriate for
    the list. Contact WWDR or ADC directly.

    Thanks again

    Scott
  • You are missing the point. I understand that you think the
    restriction is silly. We all understand that you think the
    restriction is silly. Even if we all agreed with you, nothing
    changes. We (the folks who receive this list, and that includes
    moderators) don't have the authority to change the rules. If you want
    the rules changed, then make an effort to communicate your
    frustrations with the people that hold that authority. Complaining on
    a public mailing list is just ranting in a public place. Those wacky
    homeless people do it all the time, and I've yet to see anything
    being done about the space aliens that stole their shopping carts.......

    I understand the frustration, but let's be realistic. We've waited
    two and a half years. What's a few more hours?

    - Sam

    Apple is kind enough to provide this resource.

    On Oct 26, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Finlay Dobbie wrote:

    > On 26/10/2007, Sam Kimery <kimery...> wrote:
    >>
    >> All that may be true, but sniping on this list and at Apple employees
    >> that don't control those decisions is just a waste of time and
    >> bandwidth. Submit feedback to the ADC via the official channels or
    >> send Steve an email. Direct your complaints to someone who has the
    >> power to enact change. Hint - it's not anyone on this mailing list.
    >
    > I wasn't aware that ADC controlled the mailing lists. The fact that
    > developers have not been seeded the GM yet is a separate (and arguably
    > even more ridiculous) issue.
    >
    > -- Finlay
  • It really doesn't matter if people get the point, or fail to see the
    point, or don't want to understand that the Moderator has publicly
    requested all communication of all Leopard discussions to be omitted
    from this list until the aforementioned time.

    The rules are set in place for a reason. It doesn't matter what
    reason, please respect the rules of the mailing list and it's
    moderators and administrators. We have about 2 more hours to wait, so
    lets wait. And when you get your copy... please don't rub it in. Hehe.

    On Oct 26, 2007, at 12:02 PM, Sam Kimery wrote:

    >
    > You are missing the point. I understand that you think the
    > restriction is silly. We all understand that you think the
    > restriction is silly. Even if we all agreed with you, nothing
    > changes. We (the folks who receive this list, and that includes
    > moderators) don't have the authority to change the rules. If you
    > want the rules changed, then make an effort to communicate your
    > frustrations with the people that hold that authority. Complaining
    > on a public mailing list is just ranting in a public place. Those
    > wacky homeless people do it all the time, and I've yet to see
    > anything being done about the space aliens that stole their
    > shopping carts.......
    >
    > I understand the frustration, but let's be realistic. We've waited
    > two and a half years. What's a few more hours?
    >
    > - Sam
    >
    >
    > Apple is kind enough to provide this resource.
    >
    > On Oct 26, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Finlay Dobbie wrote:
    >
    >> On 26/10/2007, Sam Kimery <kimery...> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> All that may be true, but sniping on this list and at Apple
    >>> employees
    >>> that don't control those decisions is just a waste of time and
    >>> bandwidth. Submit feedback to the ADC via the official channels or
    >>> send Steve an email. Direct your complaints to someone who has the
    >>> power to enact change. Hint - it's not anyone on this mailing list.
    >>
    >> I wasn't aware that ADC controlled the mailing lists. The fact that
    >> developers have not been seeded the GM yet is a separate (and
    >> arguably
    >> even more ridiculous) issue.
    >>
    >> -- Finlay

  • On 26.10.2007, at 17:05, Bruce Fancher wrote:

    > This is an Apple-hosted list.  If Apple asks that you don't discuss
    > something on the list until a particular time, then we should
    > respect that.  If you want to point out that the rule is silly, go
    > right ahead.  If you want to discuss Leopard before 6pm PST
    > tonight, go to any of the multitude of non-Apple-hosted MacOS X
    > developer web sites, blogs, forums, mailing lists, etc. available
    > on the Internet and do so.

      We can always just move to the MacOS X-Dev mailing list at Omni
    Group. Apple can't possibly sue them for discussing a product that is
    already out and in customers' hands.

    Cheers,
    -- M. Uli Kusterer
    http://www.zathras.de
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